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ufthakk
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Posts: 269

Re: Scenarios....

Post#61 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:58 pm

Everdin wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:49 pm Great, so pug que should be not available for rr70+? It's okay if they get farmend by premades?

Sounds a little bit intolerant, they also have feelings....

Edit:
What about a checkbox where you can opt in "I'm a Snowflake, and all enemys should have at least 10rr and 2 equip tiers lower then me?"
Text of checkbox should be "I'm a Snowflake, and all enemys should NOT have an extra skillpoint and bis."

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Everdin
Posts: 555

Re: Scenarios....

Post#62 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:01 pm

But with rr60 you have also 1 more skillpoint than rr50, and with rr50 1 more than rr40
#AllClassesMatter

“A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.”

― John Burroughs

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ufthakk
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Re: Scenarios....

Post#63 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:15 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:57 pm This server doesn't have the population to support forcing the system to form perfect groups. We don't have multiple servers to pull players from we have one server. Doing SCs at low pop times are already slow we don't need it to be even slower. There is no way to change the system that wouldn't increase time waiting between SCs.

Even if the system was changed to pug vs pug only you will still have issues with too many dps queing up, but you wouldn't have the option to make a premade and be stuck with no support classes losing every match. There are too many dps heros and not enough support classes.

Players group up for SCs to make life easier so they make sure they have the right support to not insta die. Most classes need some sort of support, trying to play some classes that need support roles to function properly in some sort of pug setting is a nightmare. There is no magical fix to the system and no matter what que system we have in place has its own set of problems. What we have now for our server population is the best system and if you want a better time make a group or even a partial group can do wonders. Not every class has a viable solo spec and this is a game that is meant to be played grouped up. If you want to be a solo hero you should probably find a different game.
Pretty sure it has the players on we for a 6v6 event sc. Not be able to participate in the we event sc scares ppl away. And being in medicore gear does pretty much that in an 6v6 environment.
So instead of giving ppl a chance to try, you make them ask themself if they really should waste their time on that.
And maybe there are better ideas, idk. But just come up with the usual l2p stereotype doesn't help.

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tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: Scenarios....

Post#64 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:28 pm

i dont buy the "we dont have the pop to support it" idea. if t4 scs were more fun then more people would play them, ergo the problem would solve itself before it even appeared. who not just let people play they want to play? mid tier scs are one of the most fun and casual friendly aspects of the game. it is true that you hit t4 and around half of scs are a complete roll

the only argument against it is that, as a player who plays in groups, you dont want to face only premade opponents. i dont see the other side of the argument outside of "the way you guys want to play offends me." pugs would be in their own space doing their own thing and prems could carry on with theirs. the only other reason this would bother you is....... if you actually WANTED to fight pugs as your prem and you're worried you wouldn't be able to anymore. otherwise what the hell do you care if they're somewhere else doing their own thing

telling them to form groups and play "properly" isnt gonna make them do it, some people are just never gonna do that. if they way they wanna play (which is completely outside of and would have no effect on the way you want to play) isn't catered for, they will just stop playin

t. just hit 60 on my new bg and, after lvling solely with mid SCs which were fun as all hell, t4s are garbage. absolute garbage. i play meta and prem maybe 90% of the time

Everdin
Posts: 555

Re: Scenarios....

Post#65 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:43 pm

tazdingo wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:28 pm i dont buy the "we dont have the pop to support it" idea. if t4 scs were more fun then more people would play them, ergo the problem would solve itself before it even appeared. who not just let people play they want to play? mid tier scs are one of the most fun and casual friendly aspects of the game. it is true that you hit t4 and around half of scs are a complete roll

the only argument against it is that, as a player who plays in groups, you dont want to face only premade opponents. i dont see the other side of the argument outside of "the way you guys want to play offends me." pugs would be in their own space doing their own thing and prems could carry on with theirs. the only other reason this would bother you is....... if you actually WANTED to fight pugs as your prem and you're worried you wouldn't be able to anymore. otherwise what the hell do you care if they're somewhere else doing their own thing

telling them to form groups and play "properly" isnt gonna make them do it, some people are just never gonna do that. if they way they wanna play (which is completely outside of and would have no effect on the way you want to play) isn't catered for, they will just stop playin

t. just hit 60 on my new bg and, after lvling solely with mid SCs which were fun as all hell, t4s are garbage. absolute garbage. i play meta and prem maybe 90% of the time
They not ask a magic crystall what will happend, there were severall trys with matchmaking and all ende up in hours without sc pop.

Again if the drama to get farmed is SOOOOOO ENORMOUS, people would join the pug only SC, even if it is only one (i would rather play always the same then get stomped all the time)!

But...NO every freeking solo joins all SCs. Why should anyone consider making a strict line between pug and premade and risking to f.ck up SC pop rate when even the pug content that already is there is not used?
#AllClassesMatter

“A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.”

― John Burroughs

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tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: Scenarios....

Post#66 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:50 pm

idk i dont play pug scs very often, but im assuming playing the same one over and over gets pretty boring. i dont care if the people who want to play in their own area to save me sitting in or starting at a wc for 4 minutes

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Ekundu01
Posts: 306

Re: Scenarios....

Post#67 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:53 pm

ufthakk wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:15 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:57 pm This server doesn't have the population to support forcing the system to form perfect groups. We don't have multiple servers to pull players from we have one server. Doing SCs at low pop times are already slow we don't need it to be even slower. There is no way to change the system that wouldn't increase time waiting between SCs.

Even if the system was changed to pug vs pug only you will still have issues with too many dps queing up, but you wouldn't have the option to make a premade and be stuck with no support classes losing every match. There are too many dps heros and not enough support classes.

Players group up for SCs to make life easier so they make sure they have the right support to not insta die. Most classes need some sort of support, trying to play some classes that need support roles to function properly in some sort of pug setting is a nightmare. There is no magical fix to the system and no matter what que system we have in place has its own set of problems. What we have now for our server population is the best system and if you want a better time make a group or even a partial group can do wonders. Not every class has a viable solo spec and this is a game that is meant to be played grouped up. If you want to be a solo hero you should probably find a different game.
Pretty sure it has the players on we for a 6v6 event sc. Not be able to participate in the we event sc scares ppl away. And being in medicore gear does pretty much that in an 6v6 environment.
So instead of giving ppl a chance to try, you make them ask themself if they really should waste their time on that.
And maybe there are better ideas, idk. But just come up with the usual l2p stereotype doesn't help.
This is a l2p issue because classes are not designed around solo play balance. The class system was based around group play. No one starts a BW or a sorc with the intent to play it solo, and if they did they would quickly learn they need a healer to function properly. Even if they made this past weekend warfront pug only all it takes is one group to have a heals and one to not have heals and it is already unbalanced. If this weekend warfront was pug only the title of this thread would be ban heals and tanks from pug only SCs because they make it unfair. Where does it end? The complaints would still come in because there always has to be a losing side.
Trismack

Husti
Posts: 111

Re: Scenarios....

Post#68 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:01 pm

People don't queue only for the one pug scenario because

a. they don't know about that pug SC feature and the .pug command
b. they want to do the live event and therefore don't queue for it
c. they got bored of the pug only sc, queue all and hope to get no premade

That's what usually is the case. I can guarantee you that most people don't know about the one pug scenario and what does that exactly mean. We were once stomped by a premade over and over again and in one round I told them to queue only up for a certain SC - which was the pug SC. They were really happy to get rid of that premade and we had a lot more fun.

And for people saying that it wouldn't work... it works very well in t1 and t3. No problems at all. Sure there are sometimes rounds without healers but people balance it themselves. Some of them just log healers then. There are classes that work a lot better with guard but it really doesn't matter that much. If it is pug and you have less tanks, then you have either more healers or more dps.

Also the SC queue could make sure to put at least one healer per group. They already have the code for ranked matches. Take that and lower the requirements. At least 1 healer per group and most scenarios will be fine. Especially the 12vs12 ones, where the group setup is less important.

The reason t4 scenarios are less popular is because there are more premades and more stomping. That's the only reason. Why shouldn't a t4 SC not be as fun as a t3 SC? It's only the t4 premades that make it worse. People even searching for "event farm/stomp groups" on weekend. They build these groups on purpose to stomp pug groups. Once a enemy premade shows up and they start losing then they are suddenly gone after a few rounds.

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ufthakk
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Posts: 269

Re: Scenarios....

Post#69 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:17 pm

Ekundu01 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:53 pm
ufthakk wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:15 pm
Ekundu01 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:57 pm This server doesn't have the population to support forcing the system to form perfect groups. We don't have multiple servers to pull players from we have one server. Doing SCs at low pop times are already slow we don't need it to be even slower. There is no way to change the system that wouldn't increase time waiting between SCs.

Even if the system was changed to pug vs pug only you will still have issues with too many dps queing up, but you wouldn't have the option to make a premade and be stuck with no support classes losing every match. There are too many dps heros and not enough support classes.

Players group up for SCs to make life easier so they make sure they have the right support to not insta die. Most classes need some sort of support, trying to play some classes that need support roles to function properly in some sort of pug setting is a nightmare. There is no magical fix to the system and no matter what que system we have in place has its own set of problems. What we have now for our server population is the best system and if you want a better time make a group or even a partial group can do wonders. Not every class has a viable solo spec and this is a game that is meant to be played grouped up. If you want to be a solo hero you should probably find a different game.
Pretty sure it has the players on we for a 6v6 event sc. Not be able to participate in the we event sc scares ppl away. And being in medicore gear does pretty much that in an 6v6 environment.
So instead of giving ppl a chance to try, you make them ask themself if they really should waste their time on that.
And maybe there are better ideas, idk. But just come up with the usual l2p stereotype doesn't help.
This is a l2p issue because classes are not designed around solo play balance. The class system was based around group play. No one starts a BW or a sorc with the intent to play it solo, and if they did they would quickly learn they need a healer to function properly. Even if they made this past weekend warfront pug only all it takes is one group to have a heals and one to not have heals and it is already unbalanced. If this weekend warfront was pug only the title of this thread would be ban heals and tanks from pug only SCs because they make it unfair. Where does it end? The complaints would still come in because there always has to be a losing side.
I'm pretty annoyed by the discussion, i don't even play sub 70's. Just saying last weekend event sc was no fun for undergeared ppl.
And that'S not a l2p issue. But no matter what i say pretty sure someone's arround to get me wrong. Have fun bullying lowbobs.

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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: Scenarios....

Post#70 » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:14 pm

Wow these are threads are getting frequent. Slow down fellas, save some complaining for class balance.

Funny you should mention toxicity. See, when i'm in a premade and we're winning very little is said on /sc. but when i am solo q and losing versus a premade, my pug side always breaks down to insults, blame, and negativity.

Maybe we should ban pugs from SCs. They seem pretty toxic to me.
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