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How to get ROR population up.

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Templa
Posts: 78
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Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#21 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:28 am

Hi, I see you joined the project in 2020, that being said you have a limited point of reference of how much already got changed and fixed and balanced during the last years. What you are hinting at is a washed down version of progression. Get quicker to endgame and scale up dmg/healing output. By making group play an opt in you remove the need for this game. The modern way of making everything casual friendly and rewarding for solo players is wrong. A society can only exist if people come together. By not enforcing this to a certain point you will get an atmosphere like in WoW, you have 200 people standing around in the main city not talking to each other and soloqueueing for stuff.

There are a lot of flaws in your point of thinking about the game in my optionion. I write my 2 cents under your points.
eldriyth wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:16 pm As I mentioned on the sequencer addon thread, I will be professional and respectful to the devs of RoR going forward. I was too hard on you guys in the past. With that said, here is my quick take on what would bring players back:

NOTE: This thread is not about undermining group play. It's about making group play an option instead of forced, while giving solo players a chance to get BIS if they are good enough. You don't need to make it easy on the soloer but make it possible. Get creative. Let's begin:

CLASS ROLE BALANCING FIXES:
• Each class is given a solid working DPS spec/specs aside from their healing/tank that also comes with good self healing.
- I personally don't want to play RoR if i have to fight a selfhealing Sorc or BW, or WL Burst combined with healing. The Classidentity of the game does not support this idea.
• Yes, the game is based around PVP and a mindset of relying on others, however, the game also has PVE as well.
- Just for the record. PvE has been made a lot easier with the pruning of mechanics. For example. You can run Gunbad with 1 tank 1 heal and 4 dps. BB/BE & C/T with 1 Tank 3 dps 2 heal.
• Classes having a solid PVE spec would help greatly in soloing. (Which is a big thing for a lot of folks. Not everybody likes to group and bullshit on discord 24/7 with friends. Even if they have them.)
- Can't be implimented without messing up PvP gameplay. Only classes that come to mind wich can't solo farm without turning on brain are probably bw and sorc. all healers have aoe Spells, all Tanks can easy clear tons of enemies at once and there is no dps spec that can't spec into aoe/survivability.
• Classes that are under powered get major tweaks to make them more appealing and useful.
- Well, i think everyone wan't to achieve that. :)

PVE CONTENT AND GEARING:
• Giving all players a way to use their PVE dps specs and actually gear up solo is a must.
• Giving solo players a choice and avenue to get the same kind of gear is a must.
• Get creative. You could make very difficult solo content that can award BIS while keeping group content around too.
- I would really love a "WoW-Magetower" version of PvE content in every game i play but it's very hard to impliment. You ahve to perfectly know every class, and create specific content catered towards every class and potentially even different specs. That recuires ludicrous amount of time.
• Having to always rely on other people to get anything good in a game is an old-school way of thinking and is heavily outdated in 2021.
- I heavily disagree with that. I play Onlinegames since i am 10 years old. And the development and route of online games is becoming worse and worse. By removing the need to group you eliminate communication. You let people that are antisocial dictate your game, do you want to build a "MUltiplayer" around solo palyers or around people wanting to go on an adventure together? If you want to cater to solo players your Game should have a solid core story coupled with a coop mode enabling said solo players to occasionally play with friends. Warhammer Online is an old game. If you want a modernized Warhammer you will have to buy a publishing license from GW and make your own game, people play warhammer for 2 reasons. 1st: great siege pvp content with actual tactic involved 2nd: classic MMORPG (3rd: Warhammer Universe) If you want modernized Siege PvP go and play GW2 or ESO. Also look at the Mess New World is....

PLAYER VS PLAYER:
• Much faster leveling and RR in scenarios will make folks happier.
- True, i play mostly SCs so of course i want that. Having to not live in the game to finish Oppressor Set would be nice :)
• Incentive for solo players in PVP. If they can manage to smoke somebody solo they should get awarded better then they do now.
- Completely agree, but i ahve no clue how it could be implimented.
• More rewards in RVR so its not so grindy.
- the pace could probably increased a but yeah.

The population is the lowest I have ever seen it and these changes would bring a hell of a lot of players back. Why? Because it shows you guys care about all player types and that is heavily needed right now.
- Not true, i play on and off since 5 years now. And i witnessed a loooot of people coming and going on both Order and Destro. Most people leave because they finished gearing their characters and loose interest. If i would go ahead and message said people and tell them ey buddy they released a new dungeon and also you can get RR 90 faster now even though you don't get anything out of it, they ask me if i have braindamage :shock:
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tazdingo
Posts: 1199

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#22 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:37 am

class changes and rebalancing are the only things that will bring people back. too many pointless trees and 0% slotted tactics. i fear all rebalancing taking place around ranked seasons means we'll never see anything like the msh revamp ever again

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Gladiolix
Posts: 181

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#23 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:56 am

Templa wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:28 am
Spoiler:
Hi, I see you joined the project in 2020, that being said you have a limited point of reference of how much already got changed and fixed and balanced during the last years. What you are hinting at is a washed down version of progression. Get quicker to endgame and scale up dmg/healing output. By making group play an opt in you remove the need for this game. The modern way of making everything casual friendly and rewarding for solo players is wrong. A society can only exist if people come together. By not enforcing this to a certain point you will get an atmosphere like in WoW, you have 200 people standing around in the main city not talking to each other and soloqueueing for stuff.

There are a lot of flaws in your point of thinking about the game in my optionion. I write my 2 cents under your points.
eldriyth wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:16 pm As I mentioned on the sequencer addon thread, I will be professional and respectful to the devs of RoR going forward. I was too hard on you guys in the past. With that said, here is my quick take on what would bring players back:

NOTE: This thread is not about undermining group play. It's about making group play an option instead of forced, while giving solo players a chance to get BIS if they are good enough. You don't need to make it easy on the soloer but make it possible. Get creative. Let's begin:

CLASS ROLE BALANCING FIXES:
• Each class is given a solid working DPS spec/specs aside from their healing/tank that also comes with good self healing.
- I personally don't want to play RoR if i have to fight a selfhealing Sorc or BW, or WL Burst combined with healing. The Classidentity of the game does not support this idea.
• Yes, the game is based around PVP and a mindset of relying on others, however, the game also has PVE as well.
- Just for the record. PvE has been made a lot easier with the pruning of mechanics. For example. You can run Gunbad with 1 tank 1 heal and 4 dps. BB/BE & C/T with 1 Tank 3 dps 2 heal.
• Classes having a solid PVE spec would help greatly in soloing. (Which is a big thing for a lot of folks. Not everybody likes to group and bullshit on discord 24/7 with friends. Even if they have them.)
- Can't be implimented without messing up PvP gameplay. Only classes that come to mind wich can't solo farm without turning on brain are probably bw and sorc. all healers have aoe Spells, all Tanks can easy clear tons of enemies at once and there is no dps spec that can't spec into aoe/survivability.
• Classes that are under powered get major tweaks to make them more appealing and useful.
- Well, i think everyone wan't to achieve that. :)

PVE CONTENT AND GEARING:
• Giving all players a way to use their PVE dps specs and actually gear up solo is a must.
• Giving solo players a choice and avenue to get the same kind of gear is a must.
• Get creative. You could make very difficult solo content that can award BIS while keeping group content around too.
- I would really love a "WoW-Magetower" version of PvE content in every game i play but it's very hard to impliment. You ahve to perfectly know every class, and create specific content catered towards every class and potentially even different specs. That recuires ludicrous amount of time.
• Having to always rely on other people to get anything good in a game is an old-school way of thinking and is heavily outdated in 2021.
- I heavily disagree with that. I play Onlinegames since i am 10 years old. And the development and route of online games is becoming worse and worse. By removing the need to group you eliminate communication. You let people that are antisocial dictate your game, do you want to build a "MUltiplayer" around solo palyers or around people wanting to go on an adventure together? If you want to cater to solo players your Game should have a solid core story coupled with a coop mode enabling said solo players to occasionally play with friends. Warhammer Online is an old game. If you want a modernized Warhammer you will have to buy a publishing license from GW and make your own game, people play warhammer for 2 reasons. 1st: great siege pvp content with actual tactic involved 2nd: classic MMORPG (3rd: Warhammer Universe) If you want modernized Siege PvP go and play GW2 or ESO. Also look at the Mess New World is....

PLAYER VS PLAYER:
• Much faster leveling and RR in scenarios will make folks happier.
- True, i play mostly SCs so of course i want that. Having to not live in the game to finish Oppressor Set would be nice :)
• Incentive for solo players in PVP. If they can manage to smoke somebody solo they should get awarded better then they do now.
- Completely agree, but i ahve no clue how it could be implimented.
• More rewards in RVR so its not so grindy.
- the pace could probably increased a but yeah.

The population is the lowest I have ever seen it and these changes would bring a hell of a lot of players back. Why? Because it shows you guys care about all player types and that is heavily needed right now.
- Not true, i play on and off since 5 years now. And i witnessed a loooot of people coming and going on both Order and Destro. Most people leave because they finished gearing their characters and loose interest. If i would go ahead and message said people and tell them ey buddy they released a new dungeon and also you can get RR 90 faster now even though you don't get anything out of it, they ask me if i have braindamage :shock:

+1, agree with pretty much every point.
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Black Orc - Oomiestompa (rr85)
Squig Herder - Bluglog (rr85)
Choppa - Poliisi (rr84)

KoBS rr70+, BW rr70+, WP rr60+

skylinx
Posts: 81

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#24 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:02 am

game content should have just been released in order and kept people at various renown rank limits until the next stage was ready for all. i.e max vanq gear and rr until invader and ranked was ready for rr70s, then sov and royal weapons for rr80. each and every mega patch would have almost been an xpac and would have given players something new to grind for. instead of releasing content that offers lesser rewards in new content then their existing gear. this would have also kept everyone at a similar gear level for longer, instead of having full sov premades farming fresh rr40s. how amazing would ranked have been if everyone had only vanquisher? opperssor? maybe some pve gear mix with it. everyone then farming ranked and invader gear together enjoying that content? would have been great. to late to fix that though

i dont think you will fix RoR population now, theres no incentive to get those verteran players back until theres content that progresses multiple rr80 toons but that content is so far away

Farrul
Posts: 282

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#25 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:29 am

Templa wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:28 am CLASS ROLE BALANCING FIXES:
• Each class is given a solid working DPS spec/specs aside from their healing/tank that also comes with good self healing.
- I personally don't want to play RoR if i have to fight a selfhealing Sorc or BW, or WL Burst combined with healing. The Classidentity of the game does not support this idea.
The current problem is:


This ''class identity'' balance you refer to is already broken, what you do not wish to see in your examples is in fact already within the game.

The White lion in your description would be no different from current Witch Elves(I guess WH, i play Order), Burst/DPS/Self-healing all in one toon.


I agree this sucks, but it is understandable that players request such class balance when ''certain'' players are allowed to absolutely terrorize the lakes with their overtuned characters, either this balance philosophy is consistent or class-identity balancing can't be taken seriously ( The ''rogue/assassin archetype'' is not about self-sustain)
Last edited by Farrul on Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#26 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:40 am

Spoiler:
eldriyth wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:42 am
Saligia wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:31 am I thought I was a quite reasonable person that tries to find at least one common ground with people that has different ideas but I am completely against all your ideas. I believe this is a side effect of getting older.

The game doesn't need a solo player doing solo PvE. It will just arbitrarily increase the population and have no other benefit.

Developer time spent on PvE content is useless as you can't possibly provide better PvE content compared to all these new MMOs that offer PvE. Also MMO history taught us balancing classes for PvE content will mess up PvP balance and vice versa. Developers have very limited resources and these resources should be directed to what this game excels at, which is open world large scale PvP and city sieges. For example, Destroying siege weapons reset the siege timer. I mean why do we still have this bug?

We also do not need more rewards or faster leveling/gearing for RvR because it will take away getting the BiS gear pleasure if it is easily obtainable.

Developers need to reach out to a few organized guilds still running regular events and work with them to implement class balances for RvR and 24v24 fights. There are a couple of obvious things that can be addressed very easily and there are some other more complicated things that need to be reviewed in detail.

The balance is in a way better situation than the original game and for that, I am quite grateful to devs. But in this current state, there is still a lot of room for improvement and it needs to be addressed.

That's why there is 240/3500 people online right now? You ignored everything I posted so you can just batter up your friends and guild members. The game is dying at a rapid rate and this attitude is why. Take some pages out of the world of warcraft book or final fantasy 14. Shitting on solo players will end up with your game in ruins. That's why those 2 games (more so final fantasy 14) lets a player enjoy themselves without guild bullshit if they so choose to. This join a guild or don't play and get anywhere mentality needs to end and fast. And have you ever thought that if a soloer could get some great gear they might be more inclined to join a guild and try group content? I can tell you right now somebody who is nicely geared up whether it's from themselves or groups is a person who will want to experience raids and such. It gives the player a feeling of freedom and will keep them playing your game.
Remeber when BOs gave renow ticks, so high it was best way to get rr up, cause everyone just standed on the flags for the ticks?
Basicly being rr pinatas, which not joined warbands and couldnt handle there class?
You dont have to join a guild here, it just makes it easier for you.
The problem is many people are just sitting in there bubble and enjoy themselfs, which indeed is contradictional to the aspect of a class based MMORPG. Which is why many folks are here, since it got rare gametyp.
I dont get why people always blame everything around the game and never external influences.
Alot of stuff happend in the world boosted player numbers by ALOT. Which is now going the other way for the reallife quality and then there are fresh big MMO out there people wanna try, cause playing the same game for 15 years maybe can get boring?
There is no real pvp content atm nearly no warband vs warband scene and just a few ranked enjoyers.
On the NB ban, why am i allowed to use this addon but no autoclicker in pve?
Why cant i use a bot in pve but a analog one in pvp?

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Templa
Posts: 78
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Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#27 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:39 pm

Farrul wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:29 am
Templa wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:28 am CLASS ROLE BALANCING FIXES:
• Each class is given a solid working DPS spec/specs aside from their healing/tank that also comes with good self healing.
- I personally don't want to play RoR if i have to fight a selfhealing Sorc or BW, or WL Burst combined with healing. The Classidentity of the game does not support this idea.
The current problem is:


This ''class identity'' balance you refer to is already broken, what you do not wish to see in your examples is in fact already within the game.

The White lion in your description would be no different from current Witch Elves(I guess WH, i play Order), Burst/DPS/Self-healing all in one toon.


I agree this sucks, but it is understandable that players request such class balance when ''certain'' players are allowed to absolutely terrorize the lakes with their overtuned characters, either this balance philosophy is consistent or class-identity balancing can't be taken seriously ( The ''rogue/assassin archetype'' is not about self-sustain)
It is a theoretical thematic anyways so: it's about what is about to change not about what is already existing. Of course there are stronger more powerful classes. There always are and always will be. I just wanted to prove a point :)
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BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#28 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:37 pm

eldriyth wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:26 am There used to be around 600+ at that time if not more. Pop used to have 1200+ on peak hours now you're lucky to see half that. A lot of people left.
Half the world couldn't leave their homes at this peak time tbf

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#29 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:39 pm

Self-healing BW or Sorc would be hilarious. All it would do is negate their self-damage.

cheepcheep
Posts: 25

Re: How to get ROR population up.

Post#30 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:58 pm

eldriyth wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:16 pm As I mentioned on the sequencer addon thread, I will be professional and respectful to the devs of RoR going forward. I was too hard on you guys in the past. With that said, here is my quick take on what would bring players back:

NOTE: This thread is not about undermining group play. It's about making group play an option instead of forced, while giving solo players a chance to get BIS if they are good enough. You don't need to make it easy on the soloer but make it possible. Get creative. Let's begin:

CLASS ROLE BALANCING FIXES:
• Each class is given a solid working DPS spec/specs aside from their healing/tank that also comes with good self healing.
Self healing on the already over powered order developer players who play slayer, witch hunter and white lion? no thanks, also it would kill class idenity
• Yes, the game is based around PVP and a mindset of relying on others, however, the game also has PVE as well.
This games selling point and strongest asset is the pvp/rvr this game has never had decent high end pve encounters (i still see rubber banding mobs and boring mob mechanics) I would much rather the devs spent more time focusing on what its strong points are for now
• Classes having a solid PVE spec would help greatly in soloing. (Which is a big thing for a lot of folks. Not everybody likes to group and bullshit on discord 24/7 with friends. Even if they have them.)
whilst sort of true with discord, you are not forced to use discord if you dont want to, without having a proper player game survey its hard to make a full answer
• Classes that are under powered get major tweaks to make them more appealing and useful.
This would be nice but I would much rather the developers focused on the rvr campagine and made it much more engaging for old and new players


PVE CONTENT AND GEARING:
• Giving all players a way to use their PVE dps specs and actually gear up solo is a must.
• Giving solo players a choice and avenue to get the same kind of gear is a must.
• Get creative. You could make very difficult solo content that can award BIS while keeping group content around too.
• Having to always rely on other people to get anything good in a game is an old-school way of thinking and is heavily outdated in 2021.
Again no point trying to improve or change the PVE in this game as I said above, fixing the broken rvr campaigne should be top priority

PLAYER VS PLAYER:
• Much faster leveling and RR in scenarios will make folks happier.
I would prefer pugs vs pugs and premades vs premades in scenarios
• Incentive for solo players in PVP. If they can manage to smoke somebody solo they should get awarded better then they do now.
I would just rather more warlord and sov coin drops from players in rvr
• More rewards in RVR so its not so grindy.
I would rather the token coin system was streamlined and made easier to understand

The population is the lowest I have ever seen it and these changes would bring a hell of a lot of players back. Why? Because it shows you guys care about all player types and that is heavily needed right now.
In my opinion the pop is dropping becuase of in no particular order
1. PVE VS DOOR
2. boring and basic rvr campagine which needs a complete total overhall.
3. city seiges and its system is terrible
4. performance issues
5. confusing coin system for purchasing gear
6. ranked just bad needs an overhall/ needs to be like wow arena
7. premades vs pugs in scens
8. order op dev classes
9. xrealmers
10. lack of developer transparency
11. new world mmo and other games
12. the biggest one for now/ the games staff need to send out monthly questionnires to players to fill in so that the devs have a decent understanding on what needs to be done first rather then just guessing like they do at the moment.

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