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no more crying, lets play.

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penagos22
Posts: 207

no more crying, lets play.

Post#1 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:27 pm

reading the last post about the low population and the current situation in ror.
I think despite everything, the devs have done the best they could, but I think we take this in a bad way, in what sense, well I tell you from my experience. my favorite class is wp dps, as everyone said that wp dps was bad, I also started to think the same, I started to get frustrated but without knowing why. So I started crying in the forums asking for changes, finally the day came they did the rework and despite that for some reason it was not enough, people kept crying about the damage, about the usefulness, about what the DOK had. Faced with this situation one day I had an epiphany: stop crying in the forums and work with what I had. first I grind out all the best sets, then I started to see which skills were better, I started experimenting with endless builds, I looked for information in the now defunct Warhammer forums and finally I did, I found a build that could compete with the best classes At the moment, all of this took almost 9 months.
So what is my point and what is happening now:
As the devs have shown that many things can be done, people got used to crying in the forums for changes, instead of trying to find the best way to play the class themselves.
In hindsight I think the wrath path was more fun before the rework because now that we have everything and we are almost the same as the dok, it is not fun and it was my fault for not having read, done math and found a way to play before coming to press on the forums.
That is why I think that the healthiest thing at this time is to take a position like the private servers of wow, in wow vanilla nobody is bothering the devs to buff the paladin retry and if someone wants to play it they will have to look for the way to do it, no more reworks and have the option to wipe everything as it was, so the devs can concentrate on other things and people will finally start looking for a way to play the game instead of stop playing because the devs do nothing Regarding the balance, they will also stop coming to the forum to cry for changes. And if in the end a class definitely does not work or is very op, try to balance it in a healthy way for example if the pull of the choppa is very op you can increase the cd, if the wp dps lacks damage, buff the numbers.
Furthermore, because of the closeness we have with the staff and their ability to change the game, people come to the forums to complain about things that are not even their fault (devs):
people complain about grinding, but they don't think that it would be boring to play a game that was consumed in a week.
They complain about the difference in gear, but they do not think that veteran players have arrived there with patience and it would be unfair for us that we have invested so much time, that from one day to the next (which already happened with the price reduction of the oppressor set) make things easier (despite the bolstering).
They complain that the veterans farm them, but when we were lows we were also farmed.
they complain about the 1 v 1, well this is a game respects the lore a lot so in the warhammer universe everything is resolved in great battles and personally, when I had the best gear with the best build I realized that all the classes beat me 1 v 1 and this was a very hard blow but I accepted it and started to play in a different way and if you face a WH or a WE, you are not going to win, that's how those classes are.
They complain about the mirrors, but they do not realize that the differences between factions is what gives flavor to this game, besides that you cannot expect the same gameplay of a chosen who comes to invade the south to prove his worth to tzeentch and win favors from a knight of the blazing sun, who is a trained nobleman and who specializes in reading the battlefield and giving orders.
They complain about the builds but they don't realize that this game is the most versatile there is thanks to the tactics (friend, change tactics according to the situation, that's why they are called tactics), people are stagnant due to laziness to change tactics in combat on the idea that only one set of tactics should work for all situations.
they complain about the classes, for example, there was a guy who said that the RP had the heals in the three paths and that they should change that, but if this friend read he would realize that the RP is a dps and healer at the same time and with the same path, the only thing that changes is the way of doing it (dps and healing), in one path it does it in area, in another in time and in the other direct.
they complain about the premades in the sc, but guys it's time to put together a group that's the game and if you want to play alone there is the queue of pugs. new people should be spammed with this, both on the forums and ingame.
They complain about the NB, but they do not realize that the best thing is to only use the skills of the path in which you have more points and some other usefulness of other paths.
They complain about the TTK, but they do not realize that a tank has to tank in many cases more than 10 people, that the fights are wb vs wb, that is, if they are organized, a healer can be hit by a minimum of 8 people.
They complain about the TTK, but they don't like that there are tanks that do damage, or use the classes with support specializations like the old AM vaul or the old wp wrath (they were classes specially designed to break this type of situation) or the glory kobts, under the stale argument of: healers = heals, dps = dps and tanks = tanks.
They complain about the TTK, when the wb leaders set up the groups with two aoe dps, this is obvious, if the dps spit damage to all sides and the other wb is good you are not going to kill them, you need focused damage , you need a 2h slayer, a SW assault or a wp dps but since they do not offer large numbers they are useless to this people (big wb premade leaders who are the same people who set the meta).
in conclusion:
slowly we become a toxic community that does not realize that we ourselves put the game in the situation it is in, asking and asking for things. I assure you, if there had not been so many reworks, so many new skills and tactics, we would already have the missing areas enabled, more content for the rr 80+ etc. BOYS ENOUGH.
..........
and there are things that must be changed, but they are not given the priority, because these things are lost in a sea of ​​ridiculous requests.
Last edited by penagos22 on Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Vri
Posts: 608

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#2 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:03 pm

TLDR

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Altarion4
Posts: 16

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#3 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:12 pm

When you only benefit one side (order), unbalanced classes, pvp becomes a box simulator, game progress is frustrating, (invader and royals, ooh my good royals), cities are a lottery they are a waiting simulator To win 1 invader or 1 royal, it is not worth the wait or the effort, regular events throwing bad guys, etc, etc.

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Amdus
Posts: 115

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#4 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm

Vri wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:03 pmTLDR
He's saying that the reason the server is in this situation is because of the players. That most changes been made are not as bad as we think, that we just dismissed it without having tried it. He also talks on how he enjoys playing on his WP despite everyone saying is bad.


@OP

I don't know, have you considered that your view on the situation could be a bit biased? I mean it's easy to say that the changes are not as bad when you main the faction that has been zerging us for a year. When you play a faction that has in example a class (SM) that basically has taken abilities from all destro tanks and has lost nothing in the process. Or the WH that despite claims that the game balance doesn't revolve around 1vs1 a WH can smoke all classes in 1vs1 with ease. It kinda feels like a classic "all for me none to thee" situation, not going to lie at this point. I think it's easy for you and your peers to agree with the current situation since it benefits your realm. But at the end of the day, the pop is lowering and now you're forced to xrealm in order to get bag rolls, otherwise our AAO is so high ( last two days I played 400% and 600% respectively) you don't even get bags when you PvE your way to 1 star IC. I don't know, it might be just me, but it kinda seems that main destro players have had enough? Maybe I'm just imagining things.

I'm just saying what I see the most in discords, it kinda smells like destro players are dissatisfied a bit. But nothing to worry about, I'm sure you'll have enough guilds on order to transfer to destro and play among yourselves, without us the filthy casuals, destro biased, whiners and bad players that just come here to complain.

Oh yes... About the complain part... I don't know either. It's fun that most of the threads I read about rebalancing classes are order asking for order class buffs, such as IB, Slayer, WH... I don't know man, maybe I'm just imagining things?

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Vri
Posts: 608

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#5 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:49 pm

Amdus wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm
Vri wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:03 pmTLDR
Spoiler:
He's saying that the reason the server is in this situation is because of the players. That most changes been made are not as bad as we think, that we just dismissed it without having tried it. He also talks on how he enjoys playing on his WP despite everyone saying is bad.


@OP

I don't know, have you considered that your view on the situation could be a bit biased? I mean it's easy to say that the changes are not as bad when you main the faction that has been zerging us for a year. When you play a faction that has in example a class (SM) that basically has taken abilities from all destro tanks and has lost nothing in the process. Or the WH that despite claims that the game balance doesn't revolve around 1vs1 a WH can smoke all classes in 1vs1 with ease. It kinda feels like a classic "all for me none to thee" situation, not going to lie at this point. I think it's easy for you and your peers to agree with the current situation since it benefits your realm. But at the end of the day, the pop is lowering and now you're forced to xrealm in order to get bag rolls, otherwise our AAO is so high ( last two days I played 400% and 600% respectively) you don't even get bags when you PvE your way to 1 star IC. I don't know, it might be just me, but it kinda seems that main destro players have had enough? Maybe I'm just imagining things.

I'm just saying what I see the most in discords, it kinda smells like destro players are dissatisfied a bit. But nothing to worry about, I'm sure you'll have enough guilds on order to transfer to destro and play among yourselves, without us the filthy casuals, destro biased, whiners and bad players that just come here to complain.

Oh yes... About the complain part... I don't know either. It's fun that most of the threads I read about rebalancing classes are order asking for order class buffs, such as IB, Slayer, WH... I don't know man, maybe I'm just imagining things?
Thank you.

penagos22
Posts: 207

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#6 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:56 pm

Amdus wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm
Vri wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:03 pmTLDR
He's saying that the reason the server is in this situation is because of the players. That most changes been made are not as bad as we think, that we just dismissed it without having tried it. He also talks on how he enjoys playing on his WP despite everyone saying is bad.


@OP

I don't know, have you considered that your view on the situation could be a bit biased? I mean it's easy to say that the changes are not as bad when you main the faction that has been zerging us for a year. When you play a faction that has in example a class (SM) that basically has taken abilities from all destro tanks and has lost nothing in the process. Or the WH that despite claims that the game balance doesn't revolve around 1vs1 a WH can smoke all classes in 1vs1 with ease. It kinda feels like a classic "all for me none to thee" situation, not going to lie at this point. I think it's easy for you and your peers to agree with the current situation since it benefits your realm. But at the end of the day, the pop is lowering and now you're forced to xrealm in order to get bag rolls, otherwise our AAO is so high ( last two days I played 400% and 600% respectively) you don't even get bags when you PvE your way to 1 star IC. I don't know, it might be just me, but it kinda seems that main destro players have had enough? Maybe I'm just imagining things.

I'm just saying what I see the most in discords, it kinda smells like destro players are dissatisfied a bit. But nothing to worry about, I'm sure you'll have enough guilds on order to transfer to destro and play among yourselves, without us the filthy casuals, destro biased, whiners and bad players that just come here to complain.

Oh yes... About the complain part... I don't know either. It's fun that most of the threads I read about rebalancing classes are order asking for order class buffs, such as IB, Slayer, WH... I don't know man, maybe I'm just imagining things?
Friend, I had to level up and get my gear, when the destro outnumbered us, when for us reaching IC was a miracle, I and those of us who were in the order at that time gritted our teeth and continued playing, and thinking in hindsight I found it fun since in the lore the forces of destruction are sweeping everything in their path, so every victory we had was more than appreciated, so you can't tell me that my opinion is biased, when I was not invited to any wb for the cities due mi spec and I had to farm my set alone as I could with patience (i remember as a pug face a coupleof times this russian top guild)(being insult in sc because my spec)(being rejected of guilds because my spec)(to be farmed by groups of destroyers who realized that I was playing alone, to the point that I had to dress up to play quietly)(you complain about the WH, now imagine being a heal, dying alone and having to run again to battle, in a time when the roads were dominated by WE), I repeat it to you, the game is like this because people dedicated themselves to crying and not playing so the devs should wipe everything to as I leave mithyc and finish the matter there.
Last edited by penagos22 on Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#7 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:58 pm

Amdus wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm @OP

I don't know, have you considered that your view on the situation could be a bit biased? I mean it's easy to say that the changes are not as bad when you main the faction that has been zerging us for a year.
It's your time zone then. Making statements about realm balance is difficult, when it's at best only true for a certain server population.
Dying is no option.

sergteo
Posts: 43

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#8 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:18 pm

I agree with you but sincerely, It's only when you stop crying and start playing the class in a dedicated way, when u realize wp dps is hot garbage, specially if you compare it to how overtuned WE and WH are right now. Been playing dps spec since 70rr, im rr84 now.
My gear is 5 pieces warlord, 3 pieces offensive sov, Fortress Greathammer, Genesis Remnant and Aspect and Sentinel for jewels, main jewel off sov one. Savage Vigor liniment (toughness and crit chance). 7 +24 strenght talis, 1 +24 WS tali.
My stats, renown and mastery:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,4149,4160

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;2;0;0;0

Image

Don't get me wrong the class is not entirely worthless, yet it's clear is not gonna be a seek dps for city wbns and such. I remind you this is on best in slot gear, with the best talismans, liniment, etc. But so little is needed to make the class a viable, and if anything it would benefit order meta the most, giving that slayer is the most viable melee dps at the moment (mostly cause it's OP). My suggestions:

* Divine Assault: while wearing hammer and shield, the ability remains the same. When wearing 2h hammer, the healing effect is removed and you get a flat damage increase, so it becomes a channeling high single target damage skill, like WE's Ruthless Assault.

* Divine Strike: while wearing hammer and shield, the ability remains the same. When wearing 2h hammer, the healing effect is removed and instead your target gets a spirit damage dot.

* Vow of Silence: while wearing 2h, the silence effect is changed to knockdown.

* Soulfire: every target affected gets a debuff that decreases their parry and block by 5%. Duration reduced to 5 seconds.

* Guilty Soul: Remove the effect of having to stack 4 times, instead everytime you crit something you get instantly the 20% damage increase. Buff this 20% to 25% dmg increase. Ony for 2h hammer.

* Divine Fury tactic: from 25% damage increase change it to 30%. Your Path of salvation abilities are disabled. This effect only applies while wearing 2h weapon. Tactic remains the same for hammer and shield.

Lasty,
* Prayer of Righteousness should convert your willpower into strenght. Having 200 willpower sitting around while in dps spec is just pointless. Runepriest and zealot have a nice way of converting stats, it would greatly benefit the class, specially for new players with not the best gear.

Overall, remove it's healing capability (although you can still heal with m2 rampaging siphoon) and add a flat damage increase with some specific utility (aoe parry/block debuff) that can fill a niche in warband vs warband as well as smallscale.
Of course these changes should be mirrored by dps dok, I just don't want to post the same thing twice, but probably you know which skills should be mirrored and which ones remain unique to WP wrath mastery.
Last edited by sergteo on Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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yoluigi
Posts: 369
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Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#9 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:26 pm

Unfortunatly they will not touch the 2h WP. The only way to have fun with the class is if you duo with a tank like i've showcase. But they really need to change tweak sigmar shield ability to 2h. I would switch SS for pillage essence for 2h. (keep same for hammer and shield) Like that could drain ap like all the hybrid class and get a good rotation goin on.
Last edited by yoluigi on Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

penagos22
Posts: 207

Re: no more crying, lets play.

Post#10 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:37 pm

sergteo wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:18 pm I agree with you but sincerely, It's only when you stop crying and start playing the class in a dedicated way, when u realize wp dps is hot garbage, specially if you compare it to how overtuned WE and WH are right now. Been playing dps spec since 70rr, im rr84 now.
My gear is 5 pieces warlord, 3 pieces offensive sov, Fortress Greathammer, Genesis Remnant and Aspect and Sentinel for jewels, main jewel off sov one. Savage Vigor liniment (toughness and crit chance). 7 +24 strenght talis, 1 +24 WS tali.
My stats, renown and mastery:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... ,4149,4160

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/r ... ;0;2;0;0;0

Image

Don't get me wrong the class is not entirely worthless, yet it's clear is not gonna be a seek dps for city wbns and such. I remind you this is on best in slot gear, with the best talismans, liniment, etc. But so little is needed to make the class a viable, and if anything it would benefit order meta the most, giving that slayer is the most viable melee dps at the moment (mostly cause it's OP). My suggestions:

* Divine Assault: while wearing hammer and shield, the ability remains the same. When wearing 2h hammer, the healing effect is removed and you get a flat damage increase, so it becomes a channeling high single target damage skill, like WE's Ruthless Assault.

* Divine Strike: while wearing hammer and shield, the ability remains the same. When wearing 2h hammer, the healing effect is removed and instead your target gets a spirit damage dot.

* Vow of Silence: while wearing 2h, the silence effect is changed to knockdown.

* Soulfire: every target affected gets a debuff that decreases their parry and block by 5%. Duration reduced to 5 seconds.

* Guilty Soul: Remove the effect of having to stack 4 times, instead everytime you crit something you get instantly the 20% damage increase. Buff this 20% to 25% dmg increase. Ony for 2h hammer.

* Divine Fury tactic: from 25% damage increase change it to 30%. Your Path of salvation abilities are disabled. This effect only applies while wearing 2h weapon. Tactic remains the same for hammer and shield.

Lasty,
* Prayer of Righteousness should convert your willpower into strenght. Having 200 willpower sitting around while in dps spec is just pointless. Runepriest and zealot have a nice way of converting stats, it would greatly benefit the class, specially for new players with not the best gear.

Overall, remove it's healing capability (although you can still heal with m2 rampaging siphoon) and add a flat damage increase with some specific utility (aoe parry/block debuff) that can fill a niche in warband vs warband as well as smallscale.
Of course these changes should be mirrored by dps dok, I just don't want to post the same thing twice, but probably you know which skills should be mirrored and which ones remain unique to WP wrath mastery.
If you want you can read the guide that I did in his time viewtopic.php?f=75&t=41931, the only thing I can tell you is that the wp is competent but and the changes that you suggest will never arrive it is easier to ask for a buff in numbers (with tests) than a rework, Also, you can't compare yourself to aoe slayer, what I think is that the wp dps shines more in single target but we are forced to play it in aoe to try to match the big **** numers meta.

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