magus 20k hps

[redsunbp]

Redsun i agree, making snb BG useful because of its normal abilities would be ok. With that being said, overpowered ability like this in group fights comes with a hefty price of taking snb BG with almost no other utility, except aoe snare. I, for example, think that if someone enjoys playing class that has only M4 going for it, then he should go for it. It's not like order has whs in meta combinations with excommunication which is similarly powerful in city fights and doesn't make you gimp your own comp. That being said, if you can make snb BG viable for its utility and not underperform compared to other destro tanks, I'll happily drop warding.

P.S. do not, please, call me naive, after I played snb BG basically all the way to full sov. I can assure you get morale much slower than other tanks, drains are more punishing and your party will have a shammy with morale pump basically never.

P.P.S. Immaculate defence is 10s godmode itself, with added benefit of working outside of large scale dogfights. I understand that the clip op posted is ridiculous, but try being objective in your judgment. This is ability you have to sacrifice other useful ones to get to, and it should be better than basic one.

Thank you for taking your time to reply. If we talk about meta gaming, which we are, then you are correct, Excom with +2 Sov is powerful - I said meta gaming because it requires quite a bit of pieces of Sovereign gear in order to not get gimped (and find a lead that cares for Excom, I main WH and throughout all the cities I did since I started I got asked twice if I had Excom spec and gear), which technically you still are because you are giving up crit % pieces but whatever, the bigger picture is that you have Excom with KD/HD/EW/SO etc.

Anyhow, only because a spec is useless I don't think it should warrant having an OP ability to compensate to its badness.

Remove the healing from second tank blocking/Remove the healing from guard damage block but keep both tanks for heals/Internal global of 1s(this would still pump out 1600x6 per second, unmitigated healing), I think there is plenty of ways to ''soft'' nerf it without destroying it. Not everything needs to be about destroying, although most of the times it seems that it is.

I see how me calling you naive might have passed by as an insult, but it wasn't, sorry if it was taken that way. I guess it was more a... ''I'm not that stupid, don't take me for stupid'' kind of deal.

[Lorsten]

Decent m4 for pushing forts, pretty much useless in other aspects of game. Maybe needs some adjustments when affects champs (cant figure out the way to do it tho).
I hope it will not get nerfed to oblivion just because it made difference in random IC mirror.

[emiliorv]

It's once every 3 minutes on the only destro tank with no morale pump, which also accidentally provides only one other important warband play relevant skill: snare, which you can also take on 2H BG. You can safely assume that this one skill is everything BG was there for. It is powerful but class has nothing else to bring, so nerfing it is a pretty big hit on the snb BG build

Yes but you can get your morale pumped, don't be so naive please, its not a solo game. Also, when are you gonna wait for m4 when you are solo...

This is literally godlike mode for 10s for the whole group, if you can't see that's overtuned I don't know what to say. In a city champ group this becomes EXTREMELY overtuned. If we assume that Magus has 100k hp the m4 is pushing what... 18k hp/s x6.

Just use 1 KOTBS with solar flare to drain (100% morale drained) the morale of that BG...problem solved.

[Cyrylius]

@redsun except what emiliorv wrote, which, mind you, is a very efficient exchange (kotbs with all the utility it provides with no moral Vs BG with lack of anything but morals - drained), I do agree that making the ability affect only one tank would keep it relevant in important settings, just as not counting guard damage. Both would, however, be nerfs to a very niche, very rarely (I've never seen warding used in champ stage, bellow is a much better option most of the time) used skill outside of fort pushes, targeting one of the most notoriously underperforming spec in game. Also, while spec being useless does not warrant having one op skill, it's still a way of making blackguard snb worth taking. While I don't think it's a good class balance, it is still balance that works: people play snb BG and like the playstyle, and the fact that skill is not well known is a proof it's very rarely an issue: class is just better in 2H variant, shield spec is plain worse: average blorc or chosen will do several thousands more protection just by existing, and BG will at most do 100k healing once, if even that (and probably get outhealed by blorc bellows anyway). You listed what wh has to sacrifice to get excommunication and how rarely it's taken: I just showed you BG is in similar situation, if not worse, cause after asking a bit I discovered that optimized order city build has 2 WHs anyway, and destro only takes 2H BGs. So once again, I don't think you have to nerf a very situational skill, just because it's strong in those situations. There are very efficient counters to it, there are severe demerits to including it in roster and if you make it worse than immaculate defence it's gonna take the only selling point of shield bg it currently possess.

P.S. I did, indeed, take "naive" as an insult, and I retract my complains if you used it that way, however mind it that I never took you for a fool, I was just referring me experience in playing the class

[TARDIONm]

BG mid tree m4.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 922&mt=&t=

Probably one of the strongest m4's available to either side, needs a rework.

after or with WH m4 Excommunicate ahahah) 100% HealDebuff xd

[forsa]

WH m4 Excommunicate does not stop pots and morals (including bg m4) so, no its not as strong.

[emiliorv]

A strong M4 on a non-meta class....with a non-meta spec....easy countered with a meta class on a meta (or at least usual) spec.... Whats the problem?

[arnagob]

The only thing we can see is, you didn't detaunt the WE

[Evilspinnre]

BG mid tree m4.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 922&mt=&t=

Probably one of the strongest m4's available to either side, needs a rework.

after or with WH m4 Excommunicate ahahah) 100% HealDebuff xd

Exco doesn't prevent lifetap healing, or m4 damage reduction. You can nullify 10s of it. I do think it should be reduced to 75% effectiveness, but WH need a touch up anyway to compete with WE damage.

Also, reaching m4 on a dps class vs reaching m4 on a full deftard SnB tank = not the same.

[TARDIONm]

BG mid tree m4.

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 922&mt=&t=

Probably one of the strongest m4's available to either side, needs a rework.

after or with WH m4 Excommunicate ahahah) 100% HealDebuff xd

Exco doesn't prevent lifetap healing, or m4 damage reduction. You can nullify 10s of it. I do think it should be reduced to 75% effectiveness, but WH need a touch up anyway to compete with WE damage.

Also, reaching m4 on a dps class vs reaching m4 on a full deftard SnB tank = not the same.

this works bugged xd and cant repair all time
and im talk about imbalance morales how and you