Recent Topics

Ads

unpopular opinions

Let's talk about... everything else
User avatar
GamesBond
Former Staff
Posts: 1072
Contact:

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#11 » Sun May 22, 2022 8:48 am

kirraha wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:40 am
GamesBond wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 10:12 pm
Glorian wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:52 pm I don’t understand why the gcd and AP changes are made now.
Regarding this specific confusion, I completely understand it has caused mass inconvenience and it was actually the main reason to the recent clashes. We've had numerous discussions internally and we will be releasing a statement tomorrow to explain what has been done recently and the reasoning/long-term plans behind these changes.

The information should have been shared before, definitely. All concerns and disputes have been raised to the appropriate team members and we will have a third e-meeting tomorrow in order to firmly put procedures back in their rightful place.

The reason why I haven't intervened on the original thread, was out of respect to the players who needed to excessively express themselves and be listened, rather than argued with.
I must just ask you then, just since this '' the information should have been shared before. If that is meant shared to the players before adding the change, I kinda feel like that is happening over and over again. The drastic changes that will surely upset a lot of players have never been shared before the acual change for people to discuss and it's delivered as a punch on the patchday. Its a repeated behaviour. IF that is what you meant with the comment :)
Yup you're absolutely correct; It's also why you've noticed a silence from the CM team in the past days, so that the people in question finally deal with the outcome of the repeated mistake completely by themselves, in order to understand how crucial it is to coordinate with the community.

We'll be having a fruitful call tonight and as usual, you're properly represented internally through the CM team so we'll keep everyone updated.

Ads
User avatar
Kpi
Posts: 517

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#12 » Sun May 22, 2022 2:16 pm

penpenagos wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:12 pm about NB:

I have to be honest here, I was able to put 15 skills (basically all my rotation) in 1 single button, and I feel like it gave me the false impression of being very good at the game, so I understand the change but I also liked playing in chill mode the game; but I have to admit that I started using the NB because there were people who used it and you couldn't compete with them without the NB, also I spent a long time being abused by people who used the NB without me knowing about the existence of this addon .

At this point I think it was not worth removing the NB from the game, because I prefer to play with many people, all in automatic mode, than not play with anyone.
The last sentence is very important. But you forget than NB still online for a few :(

I hope some day NB get back for all
Spoiler:
Kpihuss -- WP 88
Kpithrogrim -- IB 83
Kpigaragrim -- Slayer 81
Kpikossar -- SW 77
Kpirmedes -- RP 68+
Kpiboris -- KOTBS 65+

nat3s
Posts: 450

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#13 » Sun May 22, 2022 3:16 pm

billyk wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 7:59 am Unpopular opinions? Sure.

No, AM isn't stronger than sham because he can cleanse. A sham can basically take apart a whole Order party, especially in T1, while being top healing for his group. An AM can't even do one of these things reliably - AM damage is meh, AM healing is abysmal, AM has no ability to kite.
If you want to know what's strong, look at how many toons of a class you see in T4. Many toons = strong class. Few toons = weak class.
Wait what? AM does significantly more dmg than shaman as AM has 4 DoTs to shamans 3. Both are incredibly powerful and warrant toning down imo, particularly the AP drain post recent changes as it's an i-win button once more.

I'm all for changes to the meta, but when you start saying Slayer is rubbish and AM damage is weak, you look a bit Order biased.
Last edited by nat3s on Sun May 22, 2022 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Defraz rr81 Magus
Defrack rr81 Mara
Induce rr77 Shaman
rr7x AM, Choppa, WL, WH, WE, BG

nat3s
Posts: 450

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#14 » Sun May 22, 2022 3:28 pm

GamesBond wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:48 am [...] in order to understand how crucial it is to coordinate with the community.
Are the rumours true Zarbix was talking about on stream about [name redacted] who loves ranked and hates NB, directing devs to remove NB and spend so much effort on a niche playstyle (ranked) purely because that's what he wants? I hope it's just bs drama, but it would explain some of the design decisions that are seemingly directed at a minority of players against the wishes of the majority.

I look at the pop and it worries me, at some point I feel like you need to disregard this whole "but removing NB is good for the integrity of competitive play"... And just focus on what players want to keep them happy and playing.

Meant with respect :)
Defraz rr81 Magus
Defrack rr81 Mara
Induce rr77 Shaman
rr7x AM, Choppa, WL, WH, WE, BG

User avatar
GamesBond
Former Staff
Posts: 1072
Contact:

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#15 » Sun May 22, 2022 5:33 pm

nat3s wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:28 pm
GamesBond wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:48 am [...] in order to understand how crucial it is to coordinate with the community.
Are the rumours true Zarbix was talking about on stream about [name redacted] who loves ranked and hates NB, directing devs to remove NB and spend so much effort on a niche playstyle (ranked) purely because that's what he wants? I hope it's just bs drama, but it would explain some of the design decisions that are seemingly directed at a minority of players against the wishes of the majority.

I look at the pop and it worries me, at some point I feel like you need to disregard this whole "but removing NB is good for the integrity of competitive play"... And just focus on what players want to keep them happy and playing.

Meant with respect :)

I'll start my response by explaining proposals and feedback, and how we consider these two:

There are always some changes fueled by players. Proper studios have game designers: Dedicated people to shape games, and while they sometimes fail to release appealing content or positive changes, it's still a position that takes care of new content, changes and anything related to the game. Here, it's different; We don't have this luxury, and instead, we rely on internal proposals as well as community ones: Players who share feedback and write extensive unbiased proposals will be heard, whereas players who remain silent won't be heard - this is logical as you need to express yourself to have your views received by others. When we say extensive unbiased proposals, we mean pitching your idea to the development team and tackling all sorts of questions that may pop. Pitching your idea is your responsibility as a player who wants to propose something and I'll assure you that there are less than 5 people on the whole server who are willing to do that.

Moving forward with proposals, it's a fact that not all proposals are implemented. Whether they aren't feasible or do not align with the overall approach of the game, many proposals could simply be turned down and this happens in any game development, imagine the amount of proposals and feedback that are turned down at Blizzard or ArenaNet for example, considering their huge playerbase.

Many other proposals could be turned down because we lack the capabilities or manpower to do them, even though they may be extremely good and for the best of the community. Bombling is one of the few players who extensively write proposals, I wish we had the right number of developers to implement some of his proposals as they are generally good and neutral. But we don't. This is the bitter reality, and this is why Bombling sometimes feels devalued or is wasting time writing these pitches.


Going back to your original question:

The reason why you believe one single player could be pushing changes, is because they've been excessively vocal about their own proposals. Except that nobody knows how many proposals have been turned down or how many have been rectified to suit the team's approach. You could right now suggest something and if it gets implemented, tell everyone you know that you pushed your proposal and got it implemented. Good for you, but that's where it ends.

If your proposal wasn't good, it wouldn't have been implemented. Same thing applies for the player you're giving way much more credit than deserved; If the proposals were bad, they would have been completely opposed or changed to suit our vision. At the end of the day, it's the developer executing these changes and they're well aware they will have to answer to player feedback or questions if they implement something unwelcomed.

It's also important to note that some proposals have been well received by, let's call them archrivals of the player in question. I don't personally like or engage in personal feuds but it's a good indicator to judge in this case. It's also important to note that the recent changes were disliked by that same person. So you be the judge, I really hate to discuss these topics like that but I also wanted to give you a transparent answer.

lastly, while Zarbix and many of you, have argued correctly about the recent changes, there were many things that were taken from some forum posts without fact-checking. We do not go out and hunt down every inaccurate detail, we rely on people to discuss their concerns with Community Managers. We also did not want to fight off assumptions while there was mass discontent, as in my opinion, it was the rightful time for players to vent and release everything they had.

nat3s
Posts: 450

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#16 » Sun May 22, 2022 5:47 pm

Ok that sounds positive, the way it was described on stream it sounded like Grav was controlling Dalen and getting him to do whatever he wanted because he knew he could get Dalen to quit if he didn't get his own way.

Sounded pretty crazy, good to hear it's all nonsense.
Defraz rr81 Magus
Defrack rr81 Mara
Induce rr77 Shaman
rr7x AM, Choppa, WL, WH, WE, BG

User avatar
GamesBond
Former Staff
Posts: 1072
Contact:

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#17 » Sun May 22, 2022 5:57 pm

nat3s wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:47 pm Ok that sounds positive, the way it was described on stream it sounded like Grav was controlling Dalen and getting him to do whatever he wanted because he knew he could get Dalen to quit if he didn't get his own way.

Sounded pretty crazy, good to hear it's all nonsense.
Previous developers have left, others were removed, some others are still on the team but have been away for more than 2 years yet the project is still striving. We also faced previous clashes between staff members, mainly due to the unpunishable behavior of publicly venting out and causing drama but the project is still around intact. There will always be ups and downs, and this is mainly due to the fact that we're not a company with legal supervision and the ability to enforce strict guidelines. Lastly, while we value Dalen and his dedication to the project, it's always MaxHayman's decision to dictate the fate of the team and its members.

I personally enjoy working with Dalen a lot and while we often argue. I argue with a lot of team members, but it's always professional and respectful. Dalen has pushed many great changes before and it's normal that the worst ones get the most attention, it's in our nature to talk when we see something is negative but barely appreciate when something is completely positive.

billyk
Posts: 146

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#18 » Sun May 22, 2022 6:08 pm

havartii wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:20 am Organized warbands and 6 man groups do extremely well on Order, you just need to have a little organization and gear.
No they don't. Evidence: Who wins rvr? Who wins scenarios? Mostly Destro. So even if your rumored epic wbs and 6 mans exist, they have no effect on the campaign at large.
Call me when 99% of cities are IC instead of Altdorf, until that day comes you're simply full of it.
nat3s wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:16 pm Wait what? AM does significantly more dmg than shaman as AM has 4 DoTs to shamans 3. Both are incredibly powerful and warrant toning down imo, particularly the AP drain post recent changes as it's an i-win button once more.
How many AMs in t1 take apart half a destro warband? How many place 1st in dps in scenarios?
Look, just because you're so bad that you get wiped by underperforming class doesn't mean it happens to everyone. No newcomer should take the Destro whines on this forum seriously, otherwise they'll be disappointed because Destro whines about lackluster classes that barely work in a perfectly working premade.
If you want to play ranged DPS on Order, play Engie or BW.
nat3s wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:16 pm I'm all for changes to the meta, but when you start saying Slayer is rubbish and AM damage is weak, you look a bit Order biased.
Truth and facts =/= bias, maybe you should try playing the game instead of reading about it.

Look at the mythic Slayerball: Where are they? I'm playing for years now. Never seen a single one. Not in city, not in rvr, not in scs. And guess what, that means they underperform. If they were so great, everyone would play a Slayer, yet we see WLs instead. Why? Because Slayers burst when you look at them wrong and WLs are much, much stronger. WLs have mobility, Slayers don't. WLs do good damage, Slayers don't. Compare Choppas, which are everywhere - why? Because THEY are actually good.

Ads
User avatar
Minisynn
Posts: 166

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#19 » Sun May 22, 2022 6:16 pm

billyk wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:08 pm WLs do good damage, Slayers don't.
Respectfully, I think you may just be bad at your Slayer. Respectfully. 🤡
Engineer enjoyer | Finnbarr/Fionnbharr | Finnmarr/Fionnbharra | Nightmare | Youtube
Image

Sulorie
Posts: 7222

Re: unpopular opinions

Post#20 » Sun May 22, 2022 6:22 pm

billyk wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 6:08 pm

...
How many AMs in t1 take apart half a destro warband? How many place 1st in dps in scenarios?
Look, just because you're so bad that you get wiped by underperforming class doesn't mean it happens to everyone. No newcomer should take the Destro whines on this forum seriously, otherwise they'll be disappointed because Destro whines about lackluster classes that barely work in a perfectly working premade.
...

Look at the mythic Slayerball: Where are they? I'm playing for years now. Never seen a single one. Not in city, not in rvr, not in scs. And guess what, that means they underperform. If they were so great, everyone would play a Slayer, yet we see WLs instead. Why? Because Slayers burst when you look at them wrong and WLs are much, much stronger. WLs have mobility, Slayers don't. WLs do good damage, Slayers don't. Compare Choppas, which are everywhere - why? Because THEY are actually good.
You see shamans take out half order warbands? If yes, record a video, I want to explain to you, what you actually see. :)

On the second part, wow, no idea where to start. :lol:
Dying is no option.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bw10 and 31 guests