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Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

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Gier
Posts: 32

Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#1 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:57 pm

Firstly, let me introduce myself. I'm Alithrik, White Lion 80 RR. I've been playing this server on and off since it's inception and since then I've done my best to avoid the forums for it seems nothing constructive really comes for it. However after recently returning I feel like the server is at an all time low for player retention new and old. It's rare that I post but I've become increasingly fed up with a number of things that have either gone ignored or seem to have been worked in such a way that it's a broken system and no one wants to do anything about it.


Class Balance

Lets start here, now I know its hard to balance a game with asymmetrical design in mind, for those of you who do not know what that is or do not understand. Asymmetrical balance is the idea that there are no 'mirror' classes, one class is not the same as its counter part. Lets take for example, Chosens and Knights of the Blazing Sun. For instances they both have the same theme, auras. These auras empower their friends and are a bane for their foes. However outside of this then have their own weaknesses, strengths, and abilities that may look at least close to the same on paper but arent. Balance has always been a back and forth, even on retail it was an issue. At the moment balance is a little bit more in the favor of Destruction and thats okay. However there are some outliers at the moment that need to be addressed but seemingly wont be or least wont be taken into account until enough complaining is heard. These outliers would be Squigs, Shamans, WH/WE, Chosens, Goblins. I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for mainly listening destruction classes, but as I've said the 'over powered' balance is in their favor at the moment. Now I don't have proposals sadly as to how to address these classes as I don't play them but I do think the devs and the community need to have constructive talks about what can be done to reign in the power creep of some of these classes. Yet again, not wanting to be a bull in a china shop, I'd really just like to see some level headiness when it comes to the changes.


Class Distribution

This one is a little more obscure, as we don't have numbers but only anecdotal evidence. However each faction suffers a shortage of a certain play type. Be that MDPS, RDPS, Heals, or tanks. In order to try and deflate the situation of a class shortage I believe there should be given player incentives for creating and playing classes that are 'needed'. Be this a buff that lasts till that class is no longer in a lower quaintly that provides RR/XP or something else. I just personally believe if we gave rewards for people playing these classes that are needed more people would choose to play them.


Scenario Game play

Now this one is going to ruffle a lot of feathers I say because I've brought it up in chats recently and it hasn't gone over well. However Scenarios in this game serve a purpose, and I'm not sure it's a recognized purpose. By this I mean it's the content that it supposed to be pick up and play, quick in and out. However this isn't what it's become and this is a huge issue for my original complaint, player retention. A lot of people view SCs a premade 6 man game play outlet, but that was never the original design for that content. The original design was for solo or duo groups to go in and quickly join a game in a 'balanced' environment. However as it stands SC's are farming grounds for premades. Six mans in the 2/2/2 configuration coming in and stomping the unlucky pugs that have to play against them. This hampers the enjoyment for new and older players who wish to just get into a battle. After awhile if every game you play is a lose and rewards are dwindling an individual will give up and stop playing all together, thus losing more population of an already dwindling clique. Thankfully unlike the above class balance I have some suggestions and ideas that may help improve this situation for pugs, premades, and the overall health of the community.

Firstly, premades should never be pitted or qued against solo, duo, or tri-man groups. Premades should only be pitted against premades. This will solve the issue of uneven balance due to outlying team coordination issues. Something that you can't really adjust in game. Now I already hear the up roar, "Why would anyone make premades then!", "This kills my 6 man's groups enjoyment!" Well, to address the first complaint increased rewards for premade SCs would incentives people tp still make 6 man groups and que SC. Secondly, if you're only making premades to crush randoms, you aren't really that good, you're just trying to live out a power fantasy and that's a personal issue I can't fix. With this new system it would alleviate the pressure people feel when queing and make the over all experience better for new players and pugs who are using the SC as a place to improve, understand how their class works, and enjoy quick pick up game play. Thus player retention will improve because less frustration will come when an individual feels 'farmed' and that it's 'pointless' to que without a premade. This theoretically will also increase the enjoyment of those who wish to have 6 man content as it would just be a stomp in which one side surrenders quickly because there is no hope in competing. For those of you who would be upset fighting an equal opponent I merely suggest taking a look at why you enjoy stomping on pugs rather than proving yourself against an equal threat.

A second issue that comes with Scenario's currently is imbalanced teams. Now I understand the devs have tried to work on this and have gone through a few iterations of how que slotting works. Which I whole hardly commend them, even if the attempts were not favorable for the situation, that's the sort of development we should praise even if we do not enjoy the outcome. At the moment SC's pop regardless of what classes are slotted in and this leads to yet again more frustration. A SC should never start if one team has no healers, which they have been more and more frequently over the past few days. I firmly believe that there should be a change implemented with the above premade changes that no pug, duo, or tri man SC should start with out at least one or two healers and 'batches' when added to SC's that support higher numbers should follow this rule as well. Yes I understand this may lead to longer que times, but at the same time a more enjoyable game play experience will come from this and thus more people will stay and more people will que. Least that's the theory.

Conclusion

Personally I believe these are the two pressure points within the community, I may be missing some and if I am I'd love to hear peoples input as to what is upsetting, broken, or unhealthy for the server and should be seriously looked at. Now I know what I've said is controversial and some people will write it off, others will flame, a very few will actually give well thought out and constructive feed back, arguments, and proposals. To which I will reply to, the other aforementioned I will ignore. I don't hate Return of Rekconing, every time I come back I remember why I originally quit wow and played the retail version of this game. However every time I do come back I also find a lot of frustration in playing which eventually leads me to quitting again and many others. This game is very special to many people and I think we'd all love to see it keep going forward, keep improving, and yes grow back to what it once was. This is the only reason I'm posting as my frustrations have become too much this time and I think the above topics are what is currently harming its chance at success
Last edited by Gier on Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Scottx125
Posts: 965

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#2 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:52 pm

In terms of SC's. There's a reason a pug SC exist. It was a compromise. With events and weekend events it's lifted to give everyone a chance IMO to complete the weekend or event SC by allowing everyone to participate (inc premades).

In regards to class distribution, order has an extremely high number of RDPS. It might be interesting to promote certain types of classes by giving them rewards allowing them to be levelled and geared faster.

The final big point, balance changes. I can't comment on what actually goes on. But IMO it's too slow, and too conservative. If something breaks hotfix it back and tweak stuff around at a later balance push. In terms of current balance, main class specs are generally good afaik. Obviously there are some outliers such as choppas, blackguard, bright wizards, slayers, shamans and squiggs. The big issue IMO is most other specs of classes aren't developed properly or are underperforming in their role to the point at which it's not worth playing over the default spec.
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Arla
Posts: 40

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#3 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:44 am

I'll be all ears once Marauders get pounce

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#4 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:45 am

Oh this should be a good one. I'm gonna say the over/under is 8 pages before it gets locked.
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

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Vri
Posts: 608

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#5 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:47 am

Detangler wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:45 am Oh this should be a good one. I'm gonna say the over/under is 8 pages before it gets locked.
Here have a beer. Ill take the under.
Arla wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:44 am I'll be all ears once Marauders get pounce
But you have a knock down that can be used in a powerful way if in a good wb, a great pull and you...well you get to...ill get back to you.
Last edited by Vri on Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

blackfyre06
Posts: 23

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#6 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:01 am

"At the moment balance is a little bit more in the favor of Destruction"

Never ever start a serious thread about resolving problems into the game by something like that. Wether it's true or not is not important but it just shows your bias and discredit the rest of your proposals.
Last edited by blackfyre06 on Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vri
Posts: 608

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#7 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:01 am

blackfyre06 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:01 am "At the moment balance is a little bit more in the favor of Destruction"

Never ever start a serious thread about resolving problems into the game by something like that. Wether it's true or not is not important but it just shows your bias.
Dont pull the rabbit out of the hat yet. We all know how this one will go. Let it play out.

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Gier
Posts: 32

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#8 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:39 am

blackfyre06 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:01 am "At the moment balance is a little bit more in the favor of Destruction"

Never ever start a serious thread about resolving problems into the game by something like that. Wether it's true or not is not important but it just shows your bias and discredit the rest of your proposals.
Personally I'm okay with some differences that may be seen as "Over powered" After all this game isn't about mirror match ups. As I stated I just believe some things are a bit out of line at the moment and need to be reigned back in. I'm not asking for classes to be slaughtered upon the alter. I'm just suggesting that these outliers be reigned in. Or you can go the other way of the balancing design and bring everyone else up to their level. If you read I prefaced this a lot to not sound biased, but I guess you can only do so much to seem that way.

I don't believe anything I said could be seen as inflammatory I'm simply putting things on the table to be talked about, most of my concern lay with premades, Sc's, and class distribution / intensive.

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GorkaBorka
Posts: 40

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#9 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:31 am

The current "Pugs vs 6 man premades" paradigm is just bad and should not exist if devs wish any good to their own server. In my mind it's just a horrendous concept.
Especially during events it sometimes becomes unbearable. It's just not fun and not interesting.

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Gier
Posts: 32

Re: Return of Reckoning, an abusive love

Post#10 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:09 am

GorkaBorka wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:31 am The current "Pugs vs 6 man premades" paradigm is just bad and should not exist if devs wish any good to their own server. In my mind it's just a horrendous concept.
Especially during events it sometimes becomes unbearable. It's just not fun and not interesting.
I agree and its why I made the suggestions I did. We could also just flip the current status quo as well and give premades 1 SC to que for while the others are all solo duo tri..

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