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Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

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Asch126
Posts: 10

Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#1 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:27 pm

I've seen this mentioned a lot, with no actual reason given outside of "many unskilled players use them", which obviously ain't a reason.

So what is going on exactly? What is wrong with the class that so many people agree it's just flatout bad?

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Kpi
Posts: 517

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#2 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:43 pm

The SW is a good character (not the best, but is good). the problem is that there are 10-15 times more SW than there should be for a good balance to make WBs or SC groups

When you go into a 12 player SC and there are 8 SW, 2 AM DPs, 1 Tank 2h and 1 Healer, you realize there are too many SWs at the same time.
Spoiler:
Kpihuss -- WP 88
Kpithrogrim -- IB 83
Kpigaragrim -- Slayer 81
Kpikossar -- SW 77
Kpirmedes -- RP 68+
Kpiboris -- KOTBS 65+

SuperStar
Posts: 403

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#3 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:51 pm

Asch126 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:27 pm I've seen this mentioned a lot, with no actual reason given outside of "many unskilled players use them", which obviously ain't a reason.

So what is going on exactly? What is wrong with the class that so many people agree it's just flatout bad?
Imo, it's not SW problem but it is a very old problem. SC capture based so full mdps better than full rdps. Big open fields zone and some SC ranged can and will shining but small map mdps will.

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agemennon675
Posts: 504

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#4 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:16 pm

Asch126 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:27 pm I've seen this mentioned a lot, with no actual reason given outside of "many unskilled players use them", which obviously ain't a reason.

So what is going on exactly? What is wrong with the class that so many people agree it's just flatout bad?
Both RSW builds lack dmg output and potential dmg of other rdps classes, ASW is somewhat better because it has some burst potential, very good utility(can increase targets ctbc, group AP regen, perma HD, KD, Disarm), can swap between range and melee (lets get real without the proper stats ASW will deal irrelevant range dmg) but at the same time its awfully clunky, Shadowstep will leave you farther than your target(only gets you closer to stationary targets, who stands still on a pvp mmorpg anyway ?) have no melee snare(unlike msh and rest of the roster), High ap costs all around (min 35ap on normal spammable 0 cd melee skills) means it cant keep up consistent pressure, very bad aoe, every other mdps in the game have access to at least one spammable aoe skill unlike ASW, ASW Armor debuff is a 1.5sec ranged cast and debuffs around 600armor while WL have an instant melee Armor debuff with around 1500. ASW have 20 sec cooldown on interrupt WL have 10 sec cd aoe interrupt. Does not have Aoe detaunt. ASW disarm has 30 sec cooldown, Mara disarm is 5 sec cd. It also got nerfed twice while other dps classes like Slayer etc. that were being considered the best in the game remain untouched further increasing the gap between the specs. I might've missed some other points but I hope this gives you an idea about why its considered bad. But many dont care about the details they just look at the scoreboard make assumptions.
Destruction: 40-BG / 40-DoK / 40-Chosen / 37-Mara / 37/Sorc / 36-SH / 36-Choppa / 24-Shaman / 16-WE
Order: 40-SW / 40-SM / 40-WP / 40-WL / 39-Kotbs / 38-BW / 33-AM / 22-WH / 16-RP / 12-Slayer

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vanbuinen77
Posts: 222

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#5 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:04 pm

"many unskilled players use them"

^^ Main reason.

A class is only as good as the player behind ir.
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Cyrylius
Posts: 401

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#6 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:52 pm

Lack of viable large scale AoE build isnt helping either (i'm not counting the morale drain bot SW)
RoR doesnt deserve being taken seriously.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 636

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#7 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:55 pm

The problem with the Shadow Warrior (and part of its appeal) is it is a jack of all (dps) trades, master of none.

It has ranged ST burst (against low armor), but not as good as Engie
It has ranged ST burst against high armor (sorta with FA), but not as good a BW
It has ranged AOE, but not as good as BW or Engie (or possibly some DPS AM setups)
It has melee ST, but not as good as any of the Order mdps
It has kiting abilities, but funny enough WL better at it as is DPS AM
It has dots, but once against not as good as AM or Engie

There is nothing that SW can claim as being "the best" at even something like ranged roaming build (that would be DPS AM again).

On top of that, outside of assault it is pretty squishy and even in assault it is very vulnerable to magic outside of the M1 protection bubble.

So, yeah, its just a big blob of meh gameplay with a cool shell.

lumpi33
Posts: 422

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#8 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:49 pm

Asch126 wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:27 pm I've seen this mentioned a lot, with no actual reason given outside of "many unskilled players use them", which obviously ain't a reason.

So what is going on exactly? What is wrong with the class that so many people agree it's just flatout bad?
Id say their issue is the physical damage. Beside Fester Arrow and Flame Arrow pretty much everything is affected by armor mitigation. When you hit for example a tank with 100%+ physical mitigation, high toughness and maybe self absorbs then your damage goes to zero. Same with melee dps when they are guarded. Even the used to be squishy targets like Sorcs or SHs are far from an easy kill when they are in sov and know what they are doing. You run out of steam really fast.

You also have to raise three damage stats: ballistic, weaponskill and crit. BWs/Sorcs only have to raise int, have a high crit chance from their mechanic and have more points for wounds or -crit. Their magical damage does better damage across all targets not only light armor targets because magical resistances are lower capped and harder to get than armor. They also have a very powerful debuff mechanic.

Players have also a higher chance to evade than disrupt. That means your arrows will miss more often than spells.

It's just not that great to have to rely on only one real damage source on a cooldown, which is Fester Arrow. While it is kind of fun to play for a while it is hands down not nearly as good as BWs/Sorcs.

You also don't have ground targeted aoe as SW which is very good in keep/fort fights. The aoe of the SW is after the last nerf very bad now.

To sum it up: Single target? Nope, BW/Sorc/Magus simple better. Aoe? Nope, garbage now. Meele SW? Why bother? Play a WH/WL/Slayer and have more fun.

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#9 » Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:48 pm

Yes 3k dmg every 5 sec its weak from one skill. But Mara pull make tons of dmg

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Aethilmar
Posts: 636

Re: Why exactly is Shadow Warrior considered bad?

Post#10 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:25 am

wachlarz wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:48 pm Yes 3k dmg every 5 sec its weak from one skill. But Mara pull make tons of dmg
Awwww...someone's Mara got killed by a SW once. Must have been embarrassing for you to die to a SW.

Honestly the only reason to play SW is to make Destro feel REEEEAAAALLLY bad when they lose to one.

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