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Gear Power Growth

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Gear Power Growth

Post#1 » Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:08 pm

Hiya,

Wanted to put some numbers to the power gap between the different sets and gear tiers, to see how good or bad it is..
Spoiler:
I'm okay with where it is, I like having incremental power and new builds/playstyles to work towards, though any new sets should either be below or at sov power
Credit:
This is based on a modified version of the excellent MinMax spreadsheet. I've not updated it in a long time, so missing some fixes and items :)


Couple of notes to bear in mind for below:
Spoiler:
  • This is just my made up numbers
  • While the power gap is noticible 1v1, when your power is combined with your team or warband, the overall total power difference is much diminished
  • Combining sets is often BIS as you can pick more of the stats you want, but following above logic almost always reduces overall power, as you get 1 less bonus per set equipped.
  • There's obviously a lot of power in form of abilities effects and base values, that closes the gap, especially for healers and tanks
  • On the other hand, there's various hidden bonuses to simply having more of everything and being able to reached various stat thresholds (e.g. 8k hp vs 6k hp, 300 ini vs 200, exponential gains in EHP and dmg, etc.)
  • The time it takes from R1 to R70 is roughly the same as R70 to R80, but the raw power gained is only about 15% and the power / war crests ratio goes from 2.7 in t4 to 0.2 in t8

Image
Image
Image

Tier power calculation:
Spoiler:
  • The avg gear and set bonus of the tier is used, plus...
  • Avg class base = 1544 - 387 (minus useless stats e.g. BS on melee) = 1157 power
  • pots = 227
  • weapon = 50+25*Tier (4 to 8)
  • Renown = 8*10*Tier
  • 2p genesis = 120
  • 1 AP = 1 (t4:250,t5:275,+t6:300)
  • Bonus for missing pieces = gear power / pieces * (9 - pieces) / 2 (e.g. Anni=766/5*(9-5)/2=306)

For the Set Power chart bear in mind that lower tier sets will have fewer pieces, bonuses and lower avg power, unlike above it does not take into account that a 4p set have 5 other slots available..
Image
Image

Set Calculation:
Spoiler:
  • 1 stat (int, str, magic power, etc.) = 1 power
  • 1% (crit,parry, reduce parry,ect.), 1 AP/sec, 1 morale/sec, 0.1 hp/sec = 10 power
  • 1% blocked, % damage, % reduced damage = 20 power
  • 1% critical damage, disrupt, dodge = 5 power
  • 5.667 armor = 1 power (136/24=5.667)
  • 6 all resist = 1 power
  • weak procs = 50, strong procs = 100, stats proc (counted as 100% uptime) = X power
  • talisman slot = 24, special talis = 54
Last edited by BluIzLucky on Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Caduceus
Posts: 653

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#2 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:59 am

Interesting! Especially that off sov has a slightly higher power rating!
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

User avatar
Phantasm
Posts: 676

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#3 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:49 am

Spoiler:
BluIzLucky wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:08 pm Hiya,

Wanted to put some numbers to the power gap between the different sets and gear tiers, to see how good or bad it is..
Spoiler:
I'm okay with where it is, I like having incremental power and new builds/playstyles to work towards, though any new sets should either be below or at sov power
Credit:
This is based on a modified version of the excellent MinMax spreadsheet. I've not updated it in a long time, so missing some fixes and items :)


Image


Set Calculation:
Spoiler:
  • 1 stat (int, str, magic power, etc.) = 1 power
  • 1% (crit,parry, reduce parry,ect.), 1 AP/sec, 1 morale/sec, 0.1 hp/sec = 10 power
  • 1% blocked, % damage, % reduced damage = 20 power
  • 5.667 armor = 1 power (136/24=5.667)
  • 6 all resist = 1 power
  • weak procs = 50, strong procs = 100, stats proc (counted as 100% uptime) = X power
  • talisman slot = 24, special talis = 54

Couple of notes to bear in mind for totals below:
Spoiler:
  • This is just my made up numbers
  • While the power gap is noticible 1v1, when your power is combined with your team or warband, the overall total power difference is much diminished
  • Combining sets is often BIS as you can pick more of the stats you want, but following above logic almost always reduces overall power, as you get 1 less bonus per set equipped.
  • There's obviously a lot of power in form of abilities effects and base values, that closes the gap, especially for healers and tanks
  • On the other hand, there's various hidden bonuses to simply having more of everything and being able to reached various stat thresholds (e.g. 8k hp vs 6k hp, 300 ini vs 200, exponential gains in EHP and dmg, etc.)
  • The time it takes from R1 to R70 is roughly the same as R70 to R80, but the raw power gained is only about 15% and the power / war crests ratio goes from 2.7 in t4 to 0.2 in t8

Image
Image

Tier power calculation:
Spoiler:
  • The avg gear and set bonus of the tier is used, plus...
  • Avg class base = 1544 - 387 (minus useless stats e.g. BS on melee) = 1157 power
  • pots = 227
  • weapon = 50+25*Tier (4 to 8)
  • Renown = 8*10*Tier
  • 2p genesis = 120
  • Bonus for missing pieces = gear power / pieces * (9 - pieces) / 2 (e.g. Anni=766/5*(9-5)/2=306)
Excellent work. It actually confirms that chars 40 and below RR60 are having hard time in RvR and scenarios, which brings reason to balance out EXP vs RR gains in tier 2/3 scenarios. As soon you get T6 gear (Vanquisher, Oppressor, Sentinel and Vale-Walker) you can actually compete with FullSovWBs :) If only Vale-Walker was also added to new Wards system, some classes really can take advantage of that set.
I also want to point out how the gains look like for available renown points for renown specs, taking into account same calculations you used for gear stat. We almost always spec same way:

DPS:

Image

Tank:

Image

I have no idea how RA progress for healers look like - not my cup of tea, i would say.

Side note - consider for a moment how one particular Order class Skill ignores total % of Destro Tank defensive Stat:

Image

rrrutsss
Posts: 166

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#4 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:20 am

But some set bonuses are better than just pure stat points, like chance to steal stats from enemy when you attack or they attack. Making them weaker and yourself stronger.

nocturnalguest
Posts: 490

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#5 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:25 am

Phantasm wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:49 am Side note - consider for a moment how one particular Order class Skill ignores total % of Destro Tank defensive Stat:
And then what? Give either IB or Kotbs or SM channeled blocks? Or mirror BG M4 somewhere?
This starts to get really boring... Truly a meme.
Just level one and figure what is actually killing. You'd be surprised

User avatar
Phantasm
Posts: 676

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#6 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:46 am

nocturnalguest wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:25 am
Phantasm wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:49 am Side note - consider for a moment how one particular Order class Skill ignores total % of Destro Tank defensive Stat:
And then what? Give either IB or Kotbs or SM channeled blocks? Or mirror BG M4 somewhere?
This starts to get really boring... Truly a meme.
Just level one and figure what is actually killing. You'd be surprised
Actually I got my SL 83
Lets not change this thread into another discussion about balance proposals, I just stated how one skill with 20s/30s uptime ignore majority of defensive main stats of destro tanks. I cant find destro skill with similar % of ignoring Order defensive tank stats.

User avatar
Lileldys
Posts: 666

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#7 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:08 am

Phantasm wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:46 am
nocturnalguest wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:25 am
Phantasm wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:49 am Side note - consider for a moment how one particular Order class Skill ignores total % of Destro Tank defensive Stat:
And then what? Give either IB or Kotbs or SM channeled blocks? Or mirror BG M4 somewhere?
This starts to get really boring... Truly a meme.
Just level one and figure what is actually killing. You'd be surprised
Actually I got my SL 83
Lets not change this thread into another discussion about balance proposals, I just stated how one skill with 20s/30s uptime ignore majority of defensive main stats of destro tanks. I cant find destro skill with similar % of ignoring Order defensive tank stats.
It's a different kind of skill, positioning.

nocturnalguest
Posts: 490

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#8 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:23 am

Phantasm wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:46 am Actually I got my SL 83
Lets not change this thread into another discussion about balance proposals, I just stated how one skill with 20s/30s uptime ignore majority of defensive main stats of destro tanks. I cant find destro skill with similar % of ignoring Order defensive tank stats.
Agree.
However its very hard to hold on from reply. In regards to slayers i do believe in the following - ID mechanic>Rage scales every damage including procs>5 main sov + 4 triumph>Rampage. So i see no problem with this skill, rampage is absolutely fine in general scheme of things beside ignoring morales and affecting guard damage. Tweaking this skill alone is not a good way to balance things.

edit: also 20s/30s uptime is really bold statement from 83rr slayer, your actual effective pressure window is much more narrow outside of wild power thru 11/0/13 build and in reality you bomb for like ~3 seconds at best in red. if your aoe MA is not a slayer than you will usually find yourself bombing in yellow.
Last edited by nocturnalguest on Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#9 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:08 am

Vanq is just better for most classes than Invader, no matter the raw stats.
Dying is no option.

User avatar
Phantasm
Posts: 676

Re: Gear Power Growth

Post#10 » Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:27 am

Regarding Rampage - i think its the root of all problems. It allows to forget about positioning, makes every hit land no matter what, rest - ID, DMG scale, proc everything including Red Frenzy, Victorius Strike. Thats free SL aura -120 toughness. Its a window through which red spec SL can exploit its mechanic even further. But i agree, simple nerf is not a solution, there is no replacement for SL atm to take its position.

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