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How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

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Darks63
Posts: 647

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#41 » Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:46 pm

the Main issue with forts is if you know you cant win it isnt worth bothering now since they changed loser rewards. Also the more ppl who leave after the fight is over the less bags are given out and the quality of the bags is blue max. Add to that the game can also randomly decided you didnt do enough and you dont get a roll or a tick for it.
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Former Pragg/Badlands Destro Iron Rock/Badlands Order player.

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Mordd
Posts: 257

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#42 » Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:17 pm

Scottx125 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:28 pm
Mordd wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:05 am
havartii wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:30 am Seems Destro has a nice pop in EU but Order pve door in NA to secure cities.. It is not really playable in NA anymore.
this
Destro NA is almost all smallman groups that dont want to defend or siege. their main focus is catching order when they are moving.

Nights when my guild tries to make a 12 or 18 man, we will spamm for hours looking for a few people tio fill and get nothing. No one on destro wants to participate in a WB.

When you do get people who come to Destro NA to try and get something going and start making regular WBs. You have nut job who start spreading all kinds or weird lies about them is they used to play order.

Destron NA biggest problem is its players.
And yet last night for example, Destro had the population advantage. Sieged to Reikwald and failed to take it. And they weren't even funneled. Pop was 60 order to 90 Destro and they still lost. And it was mostly order pugs with a few decent players in the mix. So id have to agree.
I was there for reikland. Destro had a ram up and a about a WB on the door. Order only had a few in the keep. When the door was at about 20% the WB just pulled oof and left with almost no resistance.
Thats a destro problem. Not an Order is OP issue.

Mordd
Posts: 257

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#43 » Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:19 pm

Also most players know its easier to defend in city than attack. They would rather have a destro city and defend. Ive heard this from many also.

Telther
Posts: 47

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#44 » Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:55 pm

Mordd wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:17 pm
Scottx125 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:28 pm
Mordd wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:05 am

this
Destro NA is almost all smallman groups that dont want to defend or siege. their main focus is catching order when they are moving.

Nights when my guild tries to make a 12 or 18 man, we will spamm for hours looking for a few people tio fill and get nothing. No one on destro wants to participate in a WB.

When you do get people who come to Destro NA to try and get something going and start making regular WBs. You have nut job who start spreading all kinds or weird lies about them is they used to play order.

Destron NA biggest problem is its players.
And yet last night for example, Destro had the population advantage. Sieged to Reikwald and failed to take it. And they weren't even funneled. Pop was 60 order to 90 Destro and they still lost. And it was mostly order pugs with a few decent players in the mix. So id have to agree.
I was there for reikland. Destro had a ram up and a about a WB on the door. Order only had a few in the keep. When the door was at about 20% the WB just pulled oof and left with almost no resistance.
Thats a destro problem. Not an Order is OP issue.

I was wondering wth was up with that! Would have been a good fight if order pushed, but it wasn’t a 100+ aao curb stomp so people didn’t want to push?

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Akalukz
Posts: 1336

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#45 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:59 am

Nah i think the thought was why lose at Fort again? So they just stopped. For instance today, 2 or 3 forts destro pushed, all of a sudden 2-3 wbs of order that hadn't been in the lake all day, (except for the forts).

EDIT: Win or loss on Fort should reset pairing.
-= Agony =-

Duukar
Posts: 256

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#46 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:12 am

It's quite obvious to me what the problem is.

1. Order has a reputation and a record for winning fort defense. That equals big currency gains.

2. Order has a VERY steep population advantage in MOST NA primetime into late night days. This means PvDoor pushes to forts with 110 order to 20 destro.


So this manifests in two ways which hurt the game.

1. In EU primetime when destro has a numbers advantage and is able to push to fort the X-realm plague takes effect. Numbers can be 200 Destro to 150 Order in the lakes and then SUDDENLY when its time for Fort D it swings to 120 destro vs 230 Order. Ive seen this happen over and over. The perceived chance of greater rewards on successful D is too tempting.

2. Repeated lack of destro in NA time zones has made destro either stop logging in or switch over to order for the night. This is proven by the dreadful numbers in NA primetime. Pop drop to 200 and its like 75% order smashing any resistance that tries to form. I dont care what the RoR website says im logged in often during those times and its order pushing to forts with 100-20.


The fix is simple.

1. Change the content. Make Forts a 12-12 or 24-24 or 48-48 multiple mini city. Fair and balanced fights at least with regard to numbers and terrain.

2. Change the rewards to make even unsuccessful defense give much better rewards. Nearly on par with winning.

Implementing #2 is MUCH easier to implement. Give gold bags to the top 10-20 participants on both D and O regardless of win or lose and watch as the more organized groups normalize to take those gold bags up for grabs...... Voila more balanced and fun forts naturally dividing the top dogs.
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Lithenir
Posts: 345

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#47 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:28 am

Mordd wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:17 pm
Scottx125 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:28 pm
Mordd wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:05 am

this
Destro NA is almost all smallman groups that dont want to defend or siege. their main focus is catching order when they are moving.

Nights when my guild tries to make a 12 or 18 man, we will spamm for hours looking for a few people tio fill and get nothing. No one on destro wants to participate in a WB.

When you do get people who come to Destro NA to try and get something going and start making regular WBs. You have nut job who start spreading all kinds or weird lies about them is they used to play order.

Destron NA biggest problem is its players.
And yet last night for example, Destro had the population advantage. Sieged to Reikwald and failed to take it. And they weren't even funneled. Pop was 60 order to 90 Destro and they still lost. And it was mostly order pugs with a few decent players in the mix. So id have to agree.
I was there for reikland. Destro had a ram up and a about a WB on the door. Order only had a few in the keep. When the door was at about 20% the WB just pulled oof and left with almost no resistance.
Thats a destro problem. Not an Order is OP issue.
This is a player problem, not just a destro problem. I've seen order pulling the ram in EU prime time countless times because destro AAO wasn't big enough and "don't give them free bags".
And tbh I **** hate this mentality. Where is the problem in trying? If we lose they get bags, right? But we don't even have a chance to get bags and rewards ourselfs because we are not trying.
So the player kill their own chance of getting bags because they are afraid the "enemy" gets a bag.

Sightbringer
Posts: 14

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#48 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:10 pm

An anecdote as a Destro-Only NA player:
I'll just share an anecdote about destro pushing Eataine into Shining Way just yesterday (11/24, 8-10pm-ish US central time, i.e. NA)...

We had an organized disco-based 12 man roaming around, order numbers were low and order had AAO. Some order had a weak defense of the eastern keep (btw, I'll also share that it's total BS that order can run straight from PVE across the rocks into the river right into the keep without being flagged for RVR, but I digress).

Destro takes the keep and as soon as the zone flips, order population spikes, and then Rolgrom comes storming out of the order warcamp with with his melee death ball. Rolls over destro pugs in the way. Our 12 man didn't stand much chance but we went into the fort expecting to see what we always see: Order logs in their powerful characters and farms pugs and small organized groups until the losers get sick of it and leave. Fort population then ends up at 60 order to 6 destro, for example.

Some thoughts
I only came back to the game maybe 6 months ago so I don't have all the historical perspectives. I also don't play in EU much so I can't speak to their experience. However, for NA destro, it seems like order is just sitting around not in oRVR until they see the right moment to log in all their powerful characters and then they proceed to steamroll destro over and over.

Is it any wonder why destro stops bothering with forts when this happens nearly EVERY time?

One can simply say "get more organized" but hey guess what, we may theoretically have a number of good, geared destro players but people have actual lives and are not always on at the same time. We (destro) joke about order pagers going off whenever a fort flips because it certainly feels that way.

Is there a solution?
That's a lot of commentary there without any real solutions. I don't want order to just quit and not put up a fight. But one must also realize by constantly rolling the other side, you're just demoralizing people and making them quit and in the end, it hurts you because then your game is ruined as you have nobody left to fight against.

I doubt it's doable but some sort of mechanic to enforce proper population balance in the fort may help... I don't know. That's probably very difficult and would be disruptive.

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DirkDaring
Posts: 369

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#49 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:23 pm

I remember back in 2016 when they first opened up T4 , Dest locked zones 24/7 for 2 months, Order rarely ever locked any zone, then after 2 months, it became Orders turn, and they locked zones all day for 2 weeks, then back to Dest.

When they frst opened Forts, Dest pushed 2 forts all day long, with 2 forts going at the same time, order rarely ever won a fort back then, or even pushed a fort, for months, it was around 80 % Dest fort pushes, and wins, to Order 20%

Altdorf was farmed every few days it rarely got over 3 stars , most of the time it was a 2 star city, this went on for months, The only time we really pushed IC, was when Dest guilds logged on their Order toons, and pushed IC, then switched to their Dest to farm Order in city.

The server was heavy Dest dominated from 2016 thru 2019, only the last 3 years has it shifted to a heavy Order dominance, but we had on average 400 more players playing between 2016 and 2019, than what we have now, a lot of players have quit.

I quit for 2 years just came back last week myself, I don't do city, no interest , and rarely do a fort, I pretty much avoid the RvDoor keep takes, as i`m here to RvR, not Pve forts, and keeps.

Mordd
Posts: 257

Re: How this game is Bias to one side over the other!

Post#50 » Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:12 pm

Forts in general are a bad example of game play in this game currently.
There are almost no rewards if you lose.
There is no real reason to defend a fort. It doesnt really do anything and its better to defend city anyways.

What this ends up as is either 70 vs 10 seems average for NA forts, or someone builds a real WB and defends with a high chance to win.
Forts used to have a real function to take or defend.

Forts need a purpose.
Forts needs rewards for losing. other wise you get like now where people dont even try any more.

NA Destro
Destro needs to stop being nothing more than a bunch of smallmans and join WBs.
You complain Destro Doesnt have leaders, but when people like Monzerk try and lead they cant get people to join.
There can be 70 in a zone and Destro cant fill a WB when spamming for people.

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