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4 problems killing this server

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illumius
Posts: 7

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#121 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:50 pm

mekal wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:05 pm
illumius wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 11:46 am Guys, I see a lot of suggestions, but let's deal with the causes, not the symptoms. The main problem of this server is a broken balance in favor of the destruction side. Therefore, the only MMORPG on warhammer has less online than any private WOW server.

Mathematically, the sides are equal at the basic level. The damage base of the main abilities is approximately similar. As far as I can see as a player without access to hidden mechanics. But the gameplay part creates an absolute advantage for the destruction player. There is no accounting for modifiers. There is no accounting for timings. There is no work to fix critical errors that give an advantage

This imbalance has been maintained for two years, but it has entered a critical phase since December 2023. In three months, the side of order failed to capture the Avelorn zone, many were unable to take the third award of the murder night event.

Good players in the face of the XRealm, NGE, and Daydream communities no longer have a chance to lose in the 6vs6 / wb vs wb format. But at the same time, the main part of the destruction community is degraded due to the lack of a challenge in the game. You can actually meet choppa in the bastion, which uses GTDC on the boss
give examples please on how destro is stronger in team based gameplay
Let's consider 2 classes with an absolutely identical role of a melee stormtrooper. Slayer and choppa.
Slayer rotation:
(Rampage + AA)~gcd~(ID)~gcd~(flurry+AA)~gcd~(flurry)~gcd~(ID+AA) ~gcd~(flurry) Naturally, ID regularly goes into parrying, which immediately reduces damage to the crowd. The crit modifier is standard. WP in a group gives 72 wounds and weak damage benefit. Bonuses from tanks are not taken into account, but in general, at the moment, the bonuses of tanks from the destruction side are slightly better in mathematical terms.
Choppa Rotation:
(Git stack in+AA)~gcd~(FS+AA) ~gcd~(Lotsa chopping+AA) ~gcd~( Lotsa chopping+AA)~gcd~(Lotsa chopping+AA) FS is significantly less dependent on parrying, so each target is tested separately. We have an increased crit modifier of 25%, we have a wound bonus of 160, DOC gives not only damage but also a slowdown of 20%
If we assume that choppa and slayer are hitting the same target with an infinite amount of health all this time, then at 2-3 minutes Slayer will start to catch up with choppa in terms of damage. But provided that there are RP and Kobts in the slayer group

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CyunUnderis
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Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#122 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:09 pm

illumius wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:50 pm
mekal wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:05 pm give examples please on how destro is stronger in team based gameplay
Let's consider 2 classes with an absolutely identical role of a melee stormtrooper. Slayer and choppa.
Slayer rotation:
(Rampage + AA)~gcd~(ID)~gcd~(flurry+AA)~gcd~(flurry)~gcd~(ID+AA) ~gcd~(flurry) Naturally, ID regularly goes into parrying, which immediately reduces damage to the crowd. The crit modifier is standard. WP in a group gives 72 wounds and weak damage benefit. Bonuses from tanks are not taken into account, but in general, at the moment, the bonuses of tanks from the destruction side are slightly better in mathematical terms.
Choppa Rotation:
(Git stack in+AA)~gcd~(FS+AA) ~gcd~(Lotsa chopping+AA) ~gcd~( Lotsa chopping+AA)~gcd~(Lotsa chopping+AA) FS is significantly less dependent on parrying, so each target is tested separately. We have an increased crit modifier of 25%, we have a wound bonus of 160, DOC gives not only damage but also a slowdown of 20%
If we assume that choppa and slayer are hitting the same target with an infinite amount of health all this time, then at 2-3 minutes Slayer will start to catch up with choppa in terms of damage. But provided that there are RP and Kobts in the slayer group
To be honest, I'm speechless about everything. Sometimes, I'm wondering if we are all playing the same game.

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Ysaran
Posts: 1236

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#123 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:15 pm

CyunUnderis wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 3:09 pm
illumius wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:50 pm
mekal wrote: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:05 pm give examples please on how destro is stronger in team based gameplay
Let's consider 2 classes with an absolutely identical role of a melee stormtrooper. Slayer and choppa.
Slayer rotation:
(Rampage + AA)~gcd~(ID)~gcd~(flurry+AA)~gcd~(flurry)~gcd~(ID+AA) ~gcd~(flurry) Naturally, ID regularly goes into parrying, which immediately reduces damage to the crowd. The crit modifier is standard. WP in a group gives 72 wounds and weak damage benefit. Bonuses from tanks are not taken into account, but in general, at the moment, the bonuses of tanks from the destruction side are slightly better in mathematical terms.
Choppa Rotation:
(Git stack in+AA)~gcd~(FS+AA) ~gcd~(Lotsa chopping+AA) ~gcd~( Lotsa chopping+AA)~gcd~(Lotsa chopping+AA) FS is significantly less dependent on parrying, so each target is tested separately. We have an increased crit modifier of 25%, we have a wound bonus of 160, DOC gives not only damage but also a slowdown of 20%
If we assume that choppa and slayer are hitting the same target with an infinite amount of health all this time, then at 2-3 minutes Slayer will start to catch up with choppa in terms of damage. But provided that there are RP and Kobts in the slayer group
To be honest, I'm speechless about everything. Sometimes, I'm wondering if we are all playing the same game.
Illuminus is troll. He is posting nonsense every now and then to keep this trash bin of a thread going on. This thread should be deleted, no good can come from disinformation and rage
Zputadenti

illumius
Posts: 7

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#124 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:36 pm

720 ppl online friday evening. Online in an absolutely free warhammer game. The popularity level of "suicide squad" in steam

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tromat
Posts: 18

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#125 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 7:49 pm

1150 very recently. Dropped for various reasons thoses days

Godsdemon03
Posts: 42
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Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#126 » Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:04 pm

Perspective
The last time I played this game was 2017. I came back about 3 months ago. I am a NA player.
I get home at 330pm central which is about 10-12pm your time in EU depending on where you are at. At this point the game is in its final PVPness before mass log. NA time slot stays dead until the West Coast players come online 2 hours behind me. (roughly) Most of those guys and girls only do Orvr.
PVE
I can't gear set as a new/returning player for these multiple reasons. No interest or not enough population. I spam LFG channel and some weeks I can get good responses other times crickets.
ORVR
Orvr is out of bounds because I have a potential to constantly be interrupted by various elements in the family. Then I spend more time trying to get back to my group. (if they haven't kicked me or the game) The investment of time vs hassle just isn't worth it.
SC's
I try to do SCs. The weekends are ruled in T3s by premades. It doesn't matter which side or its the same group of kids that max all their destro then switch to run it on all their order as well.
If I play the game with the extremely casual people that don't make an effort to try or just get 1 kill and not win the SC I learn the .surr command and it is abused alot. I like to try and make the SC somewhat close for equal renown if possible. I don't have to win all the time but the renown gap is a beast later on. If I take that character in Orvr after level 40 it will be 1 shot for quite a long time until it can get some ranks back from all the .surr matches it went thru that pushed it to 40 and had less than half of its RR.

SC Ideas
There is a lack of heals and tanks in SCs, make it when you que up into a SC it does a ready check and asks you what you are going to play- Tank, DPS MDPS, Heal then it puts those into the SC pool and that way all SCS will have a tank and heals.
If this cannot be done, have it so there is a certain tactic in every class line that offers them to adjust their role to a tank or healer with that tactic.
For example, if the sorc or BW wanted to be the tank, they would adjust that tactic- their toughness would go up, their INT would drop down.
The rogue could have its special tactic and become a bard or throw heal nades and somewhat become an artificer. the STR would drop but the WIL would go up.
The mage/Rdps could have a similar tactic where whatever target they shoot damage is reflected in a radius around that target as heals to friendlies.
Having 2 classes only to determine if they are in the mood to heal or DPS is bad for the times When the game had more population this wasn't an issue. Especially in SCs. In your research you could always download Rift, its free to play on steam. The one thing it did right was pvp. All classes could heal/tank/dps. Maybe you can get some inspiration from it. Gamingo took it over a few years back and in case you didn't know- thats where games go to die. Its current PvP is there is none. Everyone does pve only. But it had great ideas and setups for builds and how it could work for you here for some inspiration.
I gave examples that may not work but I am trying to think about how it can be fixed other than just leaving the game again.
Put keep premades and pugs in separate SCs. (if possible)
Final Thoughts
The gearset limits what new people can do once they are pushed out of T3. Once in T4 they blob up in Orvr or get murdered in T4 SCs to the higher gear set kids farming. Retention is key. Fun is Key. After 7pm cst on your server your either in a blob or playing another game there isn't anything else to do. I realise NA isn't a focus but you have us, so why not create or encourage something to gain more of that untapped population than push it away ?

Dackjanielz
Posts: 207

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#127 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 2:00 am

the sheer destro bias and constant pandering to the top 10% instead of the majority.

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Rabenfeder
Posts: 11

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#128 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:20 am

Hello,
after another few days in the game I can say from my experience that Order and Destro have the same problems, it always depends on what time you are playing and who is currently online in the game.

I have the same number on both sides Battlefields at ORVR lost and won.
Only in the scenarios did I win with the order 45 from 50, while in the destruction I only won 6 from 50.

There are very rarely open warbands on both sides and you can only join them if you have reached level 40, otherwise you will be kick out regularly. This means that many people are now running around solo and disorganized. This may be great for anyone with reputation over 60 and full gear, but for those level 25 it's just frustrating.

What does this mean for the game? From my experience, this means that newbies and beginners have little motivation to struggle through the game and therefore don't stick with it for long.

I recommend that the player community take better care of the newbies. Help them, take them with you and yes, the beginner can't play his class 100% yet, but how is he supposed to learn if you don't take him with you?
In my opinion, most of the problems in the game itself are the fault of the player community.

Otherwise, the system should be more beginner-friendly so that new players don't quickly lose interest in the game.

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Dackjanielz
Posts: 207

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#129 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 1:14 pm

Rabenfeder wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 11:20 am Hello,
after another few days in the game I can say from my experience that Order and Destro have the same problems, it always depends on what time you are playing and who is currently online in the game.

I have the same number on both sides Battlefields at ORVR lost and won.
Only in the scenarios did I win with the order 45 from 50, while in the destruction I only won 6 from 50.

There are very rarely open warbands on both sides and you can only join them if you have reached level 40, otherwise you will be kick out regularly. This means that many people are now running around solo and disorganized. This may be great for anyone with reputation over 60 and full gear, but for those level 25 it's just frustrating.

What does this mean for the game? From my experience, this means that newbies and beginners have little motivation to struggle through the game and therefore don't stick with it for long.

I recommend that the player community take better care of the newbies. Help them, take them with you and yes, the beginner can't play his class 100% yet, but how is he supposed to learn if you don't take him with you?
In my opinion, most of the problems in the game itself are the fault of the player community.

Otherwise, the system should be more beginner-friendly so that new players don't quickly lose interest in the game.

^^^

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Hazmy
Community Management
Posts: 185

Re: 4 problems killing this server

Post#130 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 1:57 pm

Locking the thread as the original topic itself has been mostly concluded and now it is being derailed into off-topic debates or into a "Feedback Megathread", and those comments should have their own threads instead in Suggestions & Feedback:

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... m.php?f=15

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