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Can we talk about the BO system?

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kklikk
Posts: 14

Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#1 » Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:54 pm

Are there any future plans for this? if so what?

At a time BOs were being made to become more important during keep take, by giving lord health ect.
What happened to this?

Also. The current BO system doesnt promote pvp in anyway, it seems to be designed by sneaking around than actual fighting.
For instance. in some SCs the BOs only unlock once a BO has been CAPTURED. You have to fight to take the BO.
Why dont we have to fight to take the BOs in RVR? why do they play no role in keep defending?

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wonshot
Posts: 1103

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#2 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:24 am

kklikk wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:54 pm ..Why dont we have to fight to take the BOs in RVR? why do they play no role in keep defending?
This is just my own view on Battle objects, but Battle objects dont have enough Value through out the phases of an active zone:

1)Zone opens and all 4 BOs on paper have same value in terms of holding minimum two to spawn boxes, however the layout of zones mixed with random keep location for the realms make so some of the BOs are better for boxrunning than others. Reikland south BO is horrible if you have north keep for example.

2) One keep reaches two stars and beyond to potentially four stars+.. If there is enough momentum a siege can start. This reduces the importance completely of holding BOs and in the case of spawning a ramp both realms will often let all four bos go uncapped as the full focus is now on the besieged keep and routes to this keep.

3) Keep siege time. All action happends around this keep and BOs have zero impact nor importance during the siege and 90% of the zone is uncontested and everything stacked at the keep.

4a) in the case of a failed siege BOs will regain some importance either for one box to spawn a new door, or enough boxes to repair missing health on doors.
4b) in the case of the keeplord dies now suddenly all BOs finally have full equal value despite location of warcamps or keeps as 3/4 BOs are required to lock a zone.

This system is honest as bareboned as any campaign can get. Battleobjectives amongst the roamers are seen as a hotspot for fights to break out and hold no value or importance. Ideas in the past included the defensive Tick in tokens/rewards for the winningside of a skirmish within BO-range to be split from the accumulated pool of kill-rps and maybe that would increase the Battleobjective focus more with reward incentives.
Or an other suggestion that has been floated around was to make BOs have a lock on them to move the battles around in the zone, granted not very organic if the lock timer is too long but that might benefit zonestage 2+4b from above.

But eitherway there was feedback provided in volume 3 years ago about the Campaign, oRvR and Battleobjectives from many sources and nothing seemed to come from it. Either lack of manpower more focus on Ranked or no obvious clear solution to revive the campaign in a campaign driven maingameplay loop.
Some player behavior has changed, but the oRvR really hasnt from back then: https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... hp?t=45512
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warlover
Posts: 384

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#3 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:53 am

kklikk wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:54 pm Are there any future plans for this? if so what?

At a time BOs were being made to become more important during keep take, by giving lord health ect.
What happened to this?

Also. The current BO system doesnt promote pvp in anyway, it seems to be designed by sneaking around than actual fighting.
For instance. in some SCs the BOs only unlock once a BO has been CAPTURED. You have to fight to take the BO.
Why dont we have to fight to take the BOs in RVR? why do they play no role in keep defending?
I agree completely, i don't know the answer to what needs to be done, but i think the BO'S should play some bigger role in rvr/keep takes

kklikk
Posts: 14

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#4 » Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:40 am

From my understanding. You need 2 bos to generate resource.

Today. we had 2 BOs held while opposition was on keep. keep was taking 3dmg per swing.
Boxes turned in only gave +2.

The ram is swinging about 10-20x faster than any resource with 2 BOs held can be turned in.

Resource needs to be giving A LOT more +health to door. There is little point to even run or hold BOs if its only going to give +2. it does nothing to little.

We had 3 BOs held at one point, most people running resource, door still fell just as quickly. With 3 BOs held and resource continually being turned in, it should negate ANY dmg being done.

The samething should apply to lord.

wonshot wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:24 am This is just my own view on Battle objects, but Battle objects dont have enough Value through out the phases of an active zone:

1)Zone opens and all 4 BOs on paper have same value in terms of holding minimum two to spawn boxes, however the layout of zones mixed with random keep location for the realms make so some of the BOs are better for boxrunning than others. Reikland south BO is horrible if you have north keep for example.

2) One keep reaches two stars and beyond to potentially four stars+.. If there is enough momentum a siege can start. This reduces the importance completely of holding BOs and in the case of spawning a ramp both realms will often let all four bos go uncapped as the full focus is now on the besieged keep and routes to this keep.

This system is honest as bareboned as any campaign can get. Battleobjectives amongst the roamers are seen as a hotspot for fights to break out and hold no value or importance. Ideas in the past included the defensive Tick in tokens/rewards for the winningside of a skirmish within BO-range to be split from the accumulated pool of kill-rps and maybe that would increase the Battleobjective focus more with reward incentives.
Or an other suggestion that has been floated around was to make BOs have a lock on them to move the battles around in the zone, granted not very organic if the lock timer is too long but that might benefit zonestage 2+4b from above.

But eitherway there was feedback provided in volume 3 years ago about the Campaign, oRvR and Battleobjectives from many sources and nothing seemed to come from it. Either lack of manpower more focus on Ranked or no obvious clear solution to revive the campaign in a campaign driven maingameplay loop.
Some player behavior has changed, but the oRvR really hasnt from back then: https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... hp?t=45512

Yep. I was part of it going on at the time. I even put in a suggestion in the correct 'forum area',well that account got banned, because I was giving my opinion of how it was not very functional.

The things you say about BOs barely being gone to. like uthorin siege camp in eataine, no one will ever hardly go to.
like you say BOs are like bait after a certain point and serve no purpose.

They give health on resource turn in as is, which is a start, but the value returned is way too low to do anything for anyone to care about.
Going to the keep in general is basically pointless, Id rather be out fighting, but no one really does that because there is no real system put in place for it.
It would be an easy value to adjust? Just turn it up!

kklikk
Posts: 14

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#5 » Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:42 pm

I suppose the issue becomes the +2 supply is always in effect. Ranking a keep would become much quicker, so the ram would need to be moved to rank 3 or 4.
But this would also bring back 5star being a possibility.

I think it would add a new dimension to RvR. RvR hasnt been changed in awhile, it would be nice to have something updated with it, on a more PvP scale.

gyps
Posts: 116

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#6 » Sun Feb 25, 2024 1:25 am

Proposed this some time ago, was not received well but I believe it would incredibly fun....anyway here's the link:

https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... 33#p537933

Current system is boring, running boxes is boring, winning is a matter of blob / dominating faction and not strategy. Providing a system with some dynamic and strategic thinking, even integrating a minor PVE system into it could give a lot to the game and rewards or contribution for a keep siege or defense will be given to players no matter their position on the batttlefield (defending /sieging keeps or defending / sieging bo's).

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Phantasm
Posts: 681

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#7 » Sun Feb 25, 2024 2:57 pm

Tbh the system is already build, check out how LOTD BOs works. There is place for every kind of groups. With a proper local AAO/Diminishing it can be something everyone was waiting for years. And ofcourse if you turn off silly addon SOR.

gyps
Posts: 116

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#8 » Mon Feb 26, 2024 12:28 am

Phantasm wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 2:57 pm Tbh the system is already build, check out how LOTD BOs works. There is place for every kind of groups. With a proper local AAO/Diminishing it can be something everyone was waiting for years. And ofcourse if you turn off silly addon SOR.
Thats the point...LOTD has the system already built and just need some tweaks to work in the rest of the tier maps.. lets keep alive the conversation to make it happen.

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Rotgut
Posts: 96

Re: Can we talk about the BO system?

Post#9 » Mon Feb 26, 2024 11:20 am

Yeah, absolutely. LotD does both blob breaking and incentivizing - and blobs on smaller doses is actually very fun. So a system like that for regular oRvR can be awesome.

Bigger maps, unlock 3 pairings, a points system that accounts for kills, holding BOs, Keep/Fort taking, and all that leads to City. Would probably work great.

Two issues that i can see is:

A) Nailing down how long it takes to fill that counter. LotD is between 45 to 75 min i believe? Seems a bit too fast for oRvR campaign. But make it too slow and ppl will not bother with it and just go for kills.

B) Which rewards will City give? Just extra crests like it is now? It could work fine if we managed to get a MMR system working, but if everybody is going City at the end of the day, then the average player won't want to get farmed once by organized WBs and then AFK for 20min just for some crests.

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