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Mara pull is a nice idea but...

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 990

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#81 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:05 pm

Phantasm wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:45 pm
Elfo7 wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:45 pm Might be unpopular opinion, but I never agreed with pull mechanic, order or destro. It is basically a guaranteed kill and it looks dumb, doesn't require skill and feels frustrating if you are on the receiving end. I would never have implemented such mechanic. For me there is way too much CC in this game. Every battle is the same, you get slowed, stunned, rooted, sometimes you spend the entire battle looking at the screen being unable to move your character.

And they still toned it down from DAOC, where you could get mezzed for 2 minutes. It was ridiculous. Warhammer sounds like a good deal in comparison, but there is still way too much CC. Add punts/pulls on top of that and it becomes a frustrating experience.
Actually, finding out that racially-bound crowd control abilities used by NPCs caught me off guard and that retraumatization when NPC Archmages use the same skill icons and sound effects on you. It was one of the unexpected but much-needed features :)

I get it, its sometimes frustrating to find a way between pulls, knockdowns, almost constant snares etc, but people need to adapt to it to fully utilize it.

Two nights ago I saw Warband Leader got marapulled into a blob of destro, people after so many years are not prepared for those situations. I mean why not order a protection, counter-charge etc. Everyone just stood there waiting for a member HP went down to make a res. Utilizing immunities is not as common thing among guild warbands as it seems it should be.
You must not play Order much. "countercharge" into the destro melee isn't really a thing now, was probably a bad idea in the past too unless you are in a slayer wb, and well we all know what happened to those. Melee Destro was always strong, probably too strong, and then they buffed it again last patch with choppa so now it is just broken. Pulls are death sentences and on Order there isn't much you can do. There's a reason people are leaving Order in droves.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

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Phantasm
Posts: 695

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#82 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:09 pm

Spoiler:
CountTalabecland wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:05 pm
Phantasm wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:45 pm
Elfo7 wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:45 pm Might be unpopular opinion, but I never agreed with pull mechanic, order or destro. It is basically a guaranteed kill and it looks dumb, doesn't require skill and feels frustrating if you are on the receiving end. I would never have implemented such mechanic. For me there is way too much CC in this game. Every battle is the same, you get slowed, stunned, rooted, sometimes you spend the entire battle looking at the screen being unable to move your character.

And they still toned it down from DAOC, where you could get mezzed for 2 minutes. It was ridiculous. Warhammer sounds like a good deal in comparison, but there is still way too much CC. Add punts/pulls on top of that and it becomes a frustrating experience.
Actually, finding out that racially-bound crowd control abilities used by NPCs caught me off guard and that retraumatization when NPC Archmages use the same skill icons and sound effects on you. It was one of the unexpected but much-needed features :)

I get it, its sometimes frustrating to find a way between pulls, knockdowns, almost constant snares etc, but people need to adapt to it to fully utilize it.

Two nights ago I saw Warband Leader got marapulled into a blob of destro, people after so many years are not prepared for those situations. I mean why not order a protection, counter-charge etc. Everyone just stood there waiting for a member HP went down to make a res. Utilizing immunities is not as common thing among guild warbands as it seems it should be.
You must not play Order much. "countercharge" into the destro melee isn't really a thing now, was probably a bad idea in the past too unless you are in a slayer wb, and well we all know what happened to those. Melee Destro was always strong, probably too strong, and then they buffed it again last patch with choppa so now it is just broken. Pulls are death sentences and on Order there isn't much you can do. There's a reason people are leaving Order in droves.
Yea, I get it, mara pull is superior to WL one, also GTDC + mara aoe KD is almost OP combo,
but my point was: people dont usually react to that, they just idle there without a backup plan.
Simple thought exercise: Garamara pulls Evilspinnray, what happens? Now, reverse it, Evilspinner pulls Garamor SL? Can you tell the difference what happens after?

Garamore
Posts: 403

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#83 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:37 pm

Normally both of us run back to our wbs as our healers and tanks actually know what they are doing
Garamore - Chosen Garamar - Marauder Garachop - Choppa Garamor - Slayer

Warband leader for Hand of Blood

https://www.twitch.tv/therealgaramore

Faction69
Posts: 47

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#84 » Thu Apr 18, 2024 11:56 pm

Elfo7 wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:45 pm Might be unpopular opinion, but I never agreed with pull mechanic, order or destro. It is basically a guaranteed kill and it looks dumb, doesn't require skill and feels frustrating if you are on the receiving end. I would never have implemented such mechanic. For me there is way too much CC in this game. Every battle is the same, you get slowed, stunned, rooted, sometimes you spend the entire battle looking at the screen being unable to move your character.

And they still toned it down from DAOC, where you could get mezzed for 2 minutes. It was ridiculous. Warhammer sounds like a good deal in comparison, but there is still way too much CC. Add punts/pulls on top of that and it becomes a frustrating experience.
If anything there's not enough CC in this game. 30 second dual immunity makes cc, which is usually the difference maker skill wise in mmo group pvp, into but a shade of what it could be.

Live cc was much stronger, but still not Daoc strong, and it was a lot better overall. Most (all?) aoe knockdowns have been removed.

Gegga
Posts: 94

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#85 » Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:18 pm

Gara is right, if you have good healers and tanks then a mara pull isnt really a problem, sometimes it can actually be beneficial since you are in range for your KD's or whatever and you have immunities so your WB can follow up on it.

the biggest problem any pug or casual warband has is that it's support players are lacking.

TL;DL Mad cuz bad.
Samson Biceps, famous egg.
Not toxic.

Jajcek12
Posts: 20

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#86 » Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:02 pm

Each side of the discusion knows that this game is uneven/buggy/lack of balance and there is no even rules for everyone. Thats why its reasonable to destroy player behind the keybord not the game “ballanace” system.You also probably have zero influence on incoming changes. Don't think that discusion about galance or game mechanic, in game without balance will solve your “personal/interpersonal” problem/s.
Sport is only fair when each side of game obey same rules. If rules are not even, players start destroy other players not the rules- rules that they have probably zero influence on.
It looks like 6years old naive idealists shouting over themselves like there would be ideal solution for this- and you even dont know how this game is coded and how this code works.
In this case and in this game it doesnt matter who is right and who is wrong – only matters political resaults. And its matter who win or lose in unbalanced game made of bugs and exploits. Conduct politics based on facts, not in relation to an ideal/s
Grow up face reality- and start making real politic not this chilidish forum shout out.
Suggestion of expierienced players? – who cares about you? , in this game ? Expert opinion-
Hahahah
And expierienced players think that they will propose changes/analisis or justified changes around bugs ?
Or just opposit justified changes and pretend that bugs doesnt exist? Gamming expierience doesnt matter in politic- and i have right to not trust in anyones good intentions.
Probably there is also no strait politic which players and Devs should assume in that case. For example(It can be any other example)- because mara pull is bugged and easy to exploit we will give WL more dmg? ??????
Or all the time raise an argument about players skill level- when game is unpredictible and this "quoted" marauder shouldnt pull you because you brake line of sight/you have immunity- but it pulls anyways ect,ect,ect(and planty of other examples)- where is players skill level? I laugh in the faces of all experienced players because its false argument/s.
If you want to try having influence on something- start socializing/work with developer team and lobby your own bugs and exploits that only you, and your side can use. Not repairing anything because, as we know- who cares about lack of exploits and ballance until someone can use those exploits and ballance to there advantage.
Make the lobby that involved your interests but that much that couldn't be fixed in closest Hotfixpatch. Fixing Whitelion Dmg is easier to fix then LoS problem( i dont even need to use wallhack to shoot through walls because moste of abbilities LoS/pathing test/s are broken-and noone will ban me for using it). Let this bug/exploit be so big or so small that will be all the time in last place of bugfix tasks but it will be effect gameplay dramaticly - for example(overall) LoS problems. Lets those influences would be based on structural constraints and limitation, like: time, human resources, human work, code limitations and that's why can't be fixed, or they cannot be fixed fast
You/anyone have problem with someone ?
Don't think that forum discusion about balance/mechanic(ect) in game, without balance will solve your/anyones problem. Go to theres discords and personal life. GMs doesn't have any power in guild discords and other "social platforms" No mercy, because no one will show same mercy to you. Start making provocations-make sure he/she/they will be perma baned. Use 3rd parties to have your hands clean. Make gaming time for that person/those persons as harsh/unfun as possible within limits of code of conduct and outside there limits when avidence cannot/are hard to gathered.
Parafresing one famouse person 1 player baned is tragedy, all guild baned its statistic.
Conduct politics based on facts,or fiction that in popular opinion behave as a true state of case not in relation to an ideal/s

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Ninjagon
Posts: 479

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#87 » Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:11 pm

No politics here, Jaicek. Many things got fixed, while started here, on forum.

And to the topic, no you cannot (efectively) prevent pulls play.
3 stacks of hold the line? Max Deft defender?? On a WB leader, who is first in line?
So stupid argument…
Ninjab - The White Lion. RETRIBUTION guild.
Also: Velmires - WP, Carnow - KotbS, Ninjagon - BW, Nynja - SW, Stin - WH, and others.
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CyunUnderis
Posts: 503
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Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#88 » Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:19 pm

Ninjagon wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:11 pm And to the topic, no you cannot (efectively) prevent pulls play.
3 stacks of hold the line? Max Deft defender?? On a WB leader, who is first in line?
So stupid argument…
I know a tank player, a WB leader (less right now), who has build his character into a full dissipation Knight and no one can really pull him right now. So, why not play a bit safer as a MA ? This is the support classes job to defend their leader.

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Ninjagon
Posts: 479

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#89 » Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:40 am

CyunUnderis wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:19 pm
Ninjagon wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:11 pm And to the topic, no you cannot (efectively) prevent pulls play.
3 stacks of hold the line? Max Deft defender?? On a WB leader, who is first in line?
So stupid argument…
I know a tank player, a WB leader (less right now), who has build his character into a full dissipation Knight and no one can really pull him right now. So, why not play a bit safer as a MA ? This is the support classes job to defend their leader.
You don't understand (or you don't want to).

Magus vs Engi - all fine here.
Choppa and Mara vs Lion - not fine.

One faction can play pull game (madness). The other not.
One faction needs to hide by corners, rocks, trees or other obstacles, and the other not.

That is the topic about.
Is it understandable now?
Ninjab - The White Lion. RETRIBUTION guild.
Also: Velmires - WP, Carnow - KotbS, Ninjagon - BW, Nynja - SW, Stin - WH, and others.
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Voldt
Posts: 11

Re: Mara pull is a nice idea but...

Post#90 » Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:28 am

Ninjagon wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:40 am
CyunUnderis wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:19 pm
Ninjagon wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2024 1:11 pm And to the topic, no you cannot (efectively) prevent pulls play.
3 stacks of hold the line? Max Deft defender?? On a WB leader, who is first in line?
So stupid argument…
I know a tank player, a WB leader (less right now), who has build his character into a full dissipation Knight and no one can really pull him right now. So, why not play a bit safer as a MA ? This is the support classes job to defend their leader.
You don't understand (or you don't want to).

Magus vs Engi - all fine here.
Choppa and Mara vs Lion - not fine.

One faction can play pull game (madness). The other not.
One faction needs to hide by corners, rocks, trees or other obstacles, and the other not.

That is the topic about.
Is it understandable now?
You don't seem to understand that there are also tools that are accessible to Order but not to Destruction. Yet I don't see Destruction constantly crying about it on these boards.

Selective thinking. That's what the topic (and many others of its kind) is about.

Is it understandable now?

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