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CH22 ?!

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Eisboleas
Posts: 145

CH22 ?!

Post#1 » Thu May 02, 2024 7:16 am

With new people coming in and old people returning to the game and want to do some different stuff like hunting for treasures etc or completing armor sets or farming gold etc, why dont we reduce the size of the party needed from 24 ? Its way too much nowdays to form a full WB for PvE, Instead make the whole process easier so it can be completed with 6 or 12 people so new people can get a good piece of gear when they hit 40 and old people can farm their Talismans for new sets or gold. Reducing the time it takes for the dungeon itself would be wise as well. Just a suggestion ...
"If you want to know who you are, you have to look at your real self and acknowledge what you see."

Darkenya [WE]

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leftayparxoun
Posts: 67

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#2 » Thu May 02, 2024 8:02 am

Leaving aside the decision to deviate from how Ch.22 hard PQs operated on Retail, this proposal (to reduce the number of required participants in those PQs) would lead to some big issues.

To sum up briefly the way those PQs worked before December for those unfamiliar:
- PQs designed around a full wb of lvl 40 players
- Average completion time of 30 minutes per PQ
- Required coordination and decent gear
- Bags awarded Onslaught pieces and/or boxes or
max lvl talismans
- Exactly 24 bags awarded per PQ
- 30 min cooldown for PQ reset

Now lets imagine the scenario where we try to reduce the required number of participants from 24 to just 6. Here are the consequences:

- PQ difficulty must be significantly decreased if it's
meant to be completed at the same time. It also
means that the overall gear requirements go up
and that it excludes low gear players (that actually
need Onslaught) even more. As it was before,
having full Sov people in the wb allowed for some
fresh lvl 40s to compete without bringing down
the effectiveness of the group down too much. If
it's balanced around a geared 6man, having for
example half the healers (one person) on Ruin
might make the run impossible.

- Number of bags must also be decreased to 6,
equal to the intended number of participants. If
the bags are more than that (6+ in this case) this
encourages fighting between different groups,
griefing and cheesing the PQ with numbers, all in
attempt to get the better bags.

- In this case, the rate of people getting rewards
from those PQs would go down to 1/4 of what it used to be (6 instead of 24 in 30 m) and would lead to competition for who gets to do the PQs since usually those runs happened near primetime and on days most people were available. Logging in on Saturday evening and finding out there are 5 groups in line to do the same content you want to do isn't exactly nice. And it's once again more fuel for drama.

To sumarise:
Reducing the cap to 6 would:
+ Make it easier for people to gather the participants needed
- Exclude new players even more than it did
- Allow for fewer people to do the content at any
given time
- Increase fighting between people for getting the
chance to do said content

Does it still seem like a good idea in your eyes? I know I prefer it to stay the way it used it be.
Onlymelee, Onlyhealing, Onlyhater, Onlybacklash, Onlytank - Entropy and Chaos

"All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only crime is pride."
The Antigone of Sophocles

User avatar
Nameless
Posts: 1167

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#3 » Thu May 02, 2024 8:38 am

Just bring back ch22 back cos economy of armor talis is going crazy

Imo wb level of ppl is good, it is some change from all other 6v6 pve all around.
Mostly harmless

K8P & Norn - guild Orz

User avatar
Eisboleas
Posts: 145

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#4 » Thu May 02, 2024 9:15 am

The problem is it aint happening ? When was the last time time u saw a 24 WB doing CH 22 ? I dont know ...
"If you want to know who you are, you have to look at your real self and acknowledge what you see."

Darkenya [WE]

User avatar
Stinksuit
Posts: 97

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#5 » Thu May 02, 2024 9:41 am

Eisboleas wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 9:15 am The problem is it aint happening ? When was the last time time u saw a 24 WB doing CH 22 ? I dont know ...
Thats because you cannot do them atm

User avatar
Rubius
Developer
Posts: 313

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#6 » Fri May 03, 2024 11:50 pm

Eisboleas wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 9:15 am The problem is it aint happening ? When was the last time time u saw a 24 WB doing CH 22 ? I dont know ...
As was noted, they're disabled right now, so you probably won't see anyone doing them. :P

Now that Hunter's Vale is out, we're moving onto City Dungeons as the next PvE content for re-release. Once we get to Chapter 22 later, we'll have to do the same as we've done for all the dungeons so far, and rebuild a significant portion of the content from scratch, so this does take a bit of time.

As far as reducing the amount of people required, this is possible, but it would mean we have to significantly scale down the rewards if the amount of players is also reduced. There are no plans for any change to Chapter 22 like this at the moment.

User avatar
Ysaran
Posts: 1300

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#7 » Sat May 04, 2024 6:28 am

Rubius wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:50 pm
Eisboleas wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 9:15 am The problem is it aint happening ? When was the last time time u saw a 24 WB doing CH 22 ? I dont know ...
As was noted, they're disabled right now, so you probably won't see anyone doing them. :P

Now that Hunter's Vale is out, we're moving onto City Dungeons as the next PvE content for re-release. Once we get to Chapter 22 later, we'll have to do the same as we've done for all the dungeons so far, and rebuild a significant portion of the content from scratch, so this does take a bit of time.

As far as reducing the amount of people required, this is possible, but it would mean we have to significantly scale down the rewards if the amount of players is also reduced. There are no plans for any change to Chapter 22 like this at the moment.
There will be a release event like for HV for the city dungeon and CH22?
Zputadenti

User avatar
joroth
Posts: 52
Contact:

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#8 » Sat May 04, 2024 12:12 pm

Nameless wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 8:38 am Just bring back ch22 back cos economy of armor talis is going crazy

Imo wb level of ppl is good, it is some change from all other 6v6 pve all around.
this main issue is armor tali's overturned, you get way more value out of them vs other tali's
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Fenris78
Posts: 795

Re: CH22 ?!

Post#9 » Sun May 05, 2024 11:48 am

About Ch 22 I agree these PQs should be reworked to be completable by groups of 12 people (easier/quicker to find and chain run if wanted), geared with Conqueror gear of equivalent.
Since Onslaught gear is for vast majority of people not a BiS gear, it's silly to currently need 20 BiS players to gear 4 fresh-40 others... :/

Simply half the damage and/or HP of PQ mobs, and bags, keep current timers and it should be good and fun to run on a regular basis.
Especially for a set wich is often used as pure cosmetics after some point...
joroth wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 12:12 pm
Nameless wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 8:38 am Just bring back ch22 back cos economy of armor talis is going crazy
Imo wb level of ppl is good, it is some change from all other 6v6 pve all around.
this main issue is armor tali's overturned, you get way more value out of them vs other tali's
I wont say "way more", but the difference is indeed in favour of armour talisman.

Roughly, you gain an average value of +1,30 % efficiency for a +24 to offensive stat (or +24 toughness wich is exact opposite of offensive stats).

A bonus of +136 armour is roughly equal to + 3,09 % to physical mitigation (136 / 44), but :

- This value is averaging a final efficiency of about 50% against physical DPS (who are around 700 WS average), to a maximum of 70% efficiency against the vast majority of tank classes, wich in result leads to an effective mitigation bonus between 1,55 % and 2,16 %

- Armor wont work against magic attacks, wich in turns will reduce the overall value of armor bonuses.

So all in all, even if Armor talismans are of slightly better value for Destruction (there are more physical-based classes Order-side), they are not overperforming in every situation.

Nonetheless, I too agree with you about effective (and perceived) value of armor talismans being slightly too good, comparatively to other bonuses from talismans.

Max value of armor talismans should be about 114 to match effective value of an +24 talisman (against a 50% ArPen DPS).

Besides, if things would be about "nerfing" armor talismans, it could be agood idea to boost the drop rate of purple fragments, as well as the ones for magical resistances (wich are currently impossible to get, and the only way to craft a max-level magic resistance talisman is a super-crit on a lv 200 master reliquary... It's crazy considering average bonus value of those, only useful against 2-3 classes in the game...).

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