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Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

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wonshot
Posts: 1153

Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#1 » Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:59 pm

Hello RoR community.

A topic that has been stuck in my mind for a couple of days is, wether or not the orvr action takes a hit on behalf of how much overview Enemy-markers being able to apply them on the other realm?

A few of my thoughts on this topic is that the ability to be able to mark enemy warbandleaders, groupleaders, or dangerous gankers will give the veteran players some "risk" scale they can quickly calculate based on previous encounters. And these Markers persist from playsession and can be shared across profiles.
While these marks are just additional information, and not automated advantages, I can see an argument for how some fights which would have happend if players were not able to Mark eachother across realm, would maybe have happend in a more ignorant way as players would need to check character names and guildtags at a much closer range and risking being engaged against enemies they would be able to tell were "stronger" via Enemy markers.

Flanking becomes abit harder when Enemy markers persist through walls, floors, buildings and terrian.
Calculating the risk by following a wellknown strong Enemy marker on your own realm is probably also something that over the years have created more calculated safe engagements, and solo or smaller groups can easier judge the succeschance based on which Marker they see. Would this information and a more blind approch create more chaotic fight with slightly less information?
Leaders pugging, retiring or just scouting the action also doesnt seem to be able to enter an Enemymarker retirement state. If I can use Troma here as an example he is not leading atm and still takes the same attention as if he had a warband to support him, as the enemy realm will target him as a high priority target despite him being solo.

Should Enemy markers take some adjusting, for example only working on Warband/groupmembers?

So Im asking the veterans who know how to Mark, analyse, and use Enemy markers to the fullest:
"Do you think Enemy not working on the Enemy realm would improve orvr action engages?"
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Rotgut
Posts: 162

Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#2 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:33 am

If we could get specific alternatives from the Devs then making a choice would be easier. Right now the only issue i have with with Enemy Marks is its ability to "see through" walls. It would be nice to have a version that automatically pops up when in view of someone marked - cuz it doesn't do that, you have to hover over the target first - and then vanishes when the target leaves your LoS.

I have no idea if that is a realistic take tho. I'm not a programmer.

I don't agree with you other points tho. Its not "slightly less information", its very goddamn important to know who exactly i'm charging into, man. Different MAs have different patterns of behavior, different strength levels, it **** matters.

Besides, the vast majority of the player-base doesn't know or care about all this. I've been in a lot of different WBs, the amount of time i've seen pugleaders call "NM/Retri/LNM/Troma/Grufrip have a WB and are blobbing" after they spotted a single member of that guild, or in the case of Troma/Grufrip just them roaming with AT MOST a SC party in between pops, is goddamn amazing. I'm gonna be that guy and say that every single leader that isn't in an established guild doesn't know who they are facing - if its a pugband, a 2/2/2 pugband or a bunch of roamers - to them its just "the other side". I don't think you need to nerf information cuz what we currently have isn't being used by most of the community.

Elvicof
Posts: 143

Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#3 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:29 am

Being able to spot enemy movement through walls would be considered cheating in every other game. Here it is just something that is accepted.

Dont think it matters much for the current state of the oRvR as that comes down to player mentality and zerging down your enemy is just to beneficial.
But it is still idiotic that you can mark players on one side and the mark persist onto the other realm.

Just change it so you can only mark ppl you are in grp/wb with and no permanent markers.
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Nekkma
Posts: 731

Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#4 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:17 am

If markers are temporary there would be no issue imo. I dont participate in wb fights so don't really use that aspect of it but I often mark enemies during a longer fight to easier keep track of strong and weak opponents. I would miss not beeing able to mark opponents if it got removed (not a big deal tho).
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Templa
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Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#5 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:02 am

Aside from my group, which get marked with tank, dps and healer flags, i have pretty much every active warbandleader marked with order and destro flags. i need to mention that in RvR without being hovered over most of the time they will not appear at all. So it takes some spamming my mouse cursor over entire enemy zergs like an idiot to figure out who or if someone is leading.
I would not mind if enemy flags were temporary for each play sessions if it's global and applies equally to all players. But than again, why bother? in smallscale it does not matter to much because you wont be diving into full 24mans and being able to judge a 12 man and assess if it's puggy enough to smoke with 6 ppl is fairly easy with knowledge about people and guilds.
So i am neutral i guess.

regarding the addon side though, how would enemy need to be changed? can it even be done? can we garuantee that there wont be old versions that still are able to mark enemys? are markers not stored locally? can the server wipe em?

removing it all together could also be an option i bet some might prefere, it would lead to a global increase in skillceiling and keep more of the games immersion. giant pink, yellow or neon green flags do definitely not benefit the warhammer fantasy feeling. xD
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xyeppp
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Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#6 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:18 pm

The markers are attached to objects via the same way Chat Bubbles, Combat Event Text & Buffhead frames are for example. You cannot really disable them without impacting these and breaking other vital parts of the game as well, so I'm not sure how and why you would want to proceed with that.

I suppose you could rework the client & hide whatever is attached to world objects outside of your LOS, but I don't think we are quite at that stage yet.
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TrainInVain
Posts: 89

Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#7 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:32 pm

As already mentioned that their comes a point that marked enemies have to be moused over again. This also happens to friendly player marks with me. Though I'm not sure how long it takes for that to happen.

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xyeppp
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Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#8 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:57 pm

TrainInVain wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:32 pm As already mentioned that their comes a point that marked enemies have to be moused over again. This also happens to friendly player marks with me. Though I'm not sure how long it takes for that to happen.
This happens when, for example, someone dies and gets assigned a new WorldObjectId.
Since they are still on your marked list (but with a different ID assigned), the mark doesn't know the object it needs to attach itself onto and disappears. When you hover over someone, you get the updated information containing the new WorldObjectId, at which point the mark reattaches itself as it now knows where does it need to go.
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TrainInVain
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Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#9 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 2:22 pm

@xyeppp ty for the explanation

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Kragg
Posts: 1773

Re: Enemy markers on the Enemy realm

Post#10 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:49 pm

xyeppp wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:57 pm
TrainInVain wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:32 pm As already mentioned that their comes a point that marked enemies have to be moused over again. This also happens to friendly player marks with me. Though I'm not sure how long it takes for that to happen.
This happens when, for example, someone dies and gets assigned a new WorldObjectId.
Since they are still on your marked list (but with a different ID assigned), the mark doesn't know the object it needs to attach itself onto and disappears. When you hover over someone, you get the updated information containing the new WorldObjectId, at which point the mark reattaches itself as it now knows where does it need to go.
Very intresting piece of information, thanks!
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