New armor sets/weapons

[noxwipe]

Hello, im sure this has been ask before but are there any plans on releasing new armor/weapon sets? Like Sovereing weapons atleast? Sorry for asking this but seems rare to me as an unexperienced player. Can some someone explain?

[anstalt]

The devs certainly have the capability of adding new weapons and armour, as they've released plenty of cosmetic gear over the years. And I'm pretty certain that they will add new usable gear in time.


The issue is likely one of balance and motivation.


Building a PvP game based on vertical progression is a bad idea. It ALWAYS results in the case of "eating the young", which means that the veteran players are not only more experienced and better at playing the game, but they also have a power advantage by having better gear. This means newbies get stomped, for a long time, until they reach endgame themselves and catch up in terms of power. Most newbies find this to be unpleasant and quit.

So, If the RoR devs added new tiers of gear, like sov weapons or anything better than sov, it would just make the situation worse and newbies would have an even worse time and be even less likely to stick around. This is not good for the server's population.


The solution is horizontal progression. In terms of gear, this would mean adding gearsets that have roughly the same power / stats as what already exists, but with different bonuses / balance of stats. I am very much in favour of this approach, as if it's done well it means players have a lot more choice on how to build their characters.

The difficulty is that it's very hard to balance, and if you get the balance wrong then people just get the "best" set and ignore the rest. Why bother grinding out a second tank gearset if its not gonna make me a better tank?!?! If the differences aren't pronounced enough, then players just wont be motivated to get them.

[Zxul]

The solution is horizontal progression. In terms of gear, this would mean adding gearsets that have roughly the same power / stats as what already exists, but with different bonuses / balance of stats. I am very much in favour of this approach, as if it's done well it means players have a lot more choice on how to build their characters.

Its not actually happening though. Taking my toughness magus as example, last relevant gear set added was dominator, which was 8 or so years ago? Since then, all the sets added for magus were same types of cookie cutter bonuses.

[leftayparxoun]

The solution is horizontal progression. In terms of gear, this would mean adding gearsets that have roughly the same power / stats as what already exists, but with different bonuses / balance of stats. I am very much in favour of this approach, as if it's done well it means players have a lot more choice on how to build their characters.

Its not actually happening though. Taking my toughness magus as example, last relevant gear set added was dominator, which was 8 or so years ago? Since then, all the sets added for magus were same types of cookie cutter bonuses.

Invader is also a Toughness set. And Victorious up to 4pc can be combined quite nicely with TOU builds for Magus.

In any case, we've actually seen reworks for both Onslaught and T1-T3 sets so far since the new ability rework. I don't think the 8 previous years will be representative for what's to come judging from that.

[Easysteps2]

I understand about the vertical difference, but it would still be nice to have one more set, even if it's RR 120+, maybe with 5% more bonus or an improved 8 piece set bonus. Anything.

I think the problem is that a gear set would need new art, and the devs are doing everything on a volunteer basis. I think the art would be the hard part. I wish everyone involved in this project could be compensated somehow.

[Zxul]

The solution is horizontal progression. In terms of gear, this would mean adding gearsets that have roughly the same power / stats as what already exists, but with different bonuses / balance of stats. I am very much in favour of this approach, as if it's done well it means players have a lot more choice on how to build their characters.

Its not actually happening though. Taking my toughness magus as example, last relevant gear set added was dominator, which was 8 or so years ago? Since then, all the sets added for magus were same types of cookie cutter bonuses.

Invader is also a Toughness set. And Victorious up to 4pc can be combined quite nicely with TOU builds for Magus.

In any case, we've actually seen reworks for both Onslaught and T1-T3 sets so far since the new ability rework. I don't think the 8 previous years will be representative for what's to come judging from that.

Invader has almost no toughness mods on parts, meaning barely any total toughness including the set bonus, so not really clear why would you call it a toughness set. Victorious once again has little toughness on parts, and no toughness set bonuses. 10% chance for 233 absorb- which is what 4pc bonus is- very much doesn't makes it worth losing the main defensive stat for, so no idea how exactly are you planning to combine it with toughness build.

The rework for Onslaught was nerfing its mods- as example, armor pen on WE gloves was nerfed from 5% to 4%. So really would rather not have a similar rework for other sets.

[leftayparxoun]

Invader has almost no toughness mods on parts, meaning barely any total toughness including the set bonus, so not really clear why would you call it a toughness set. Victorious once again has little toughness on parts, and no toughness set bonuses. 10% chance for 233 absorb- which is what 4pc bonus is- very much doesn't makes it worth losing the main defensive stat for, so no idea how exactly are you planning to combine it with toughness build.

The rework for Onslaught was nerfing its mods- as example, armor pen on WE gloves was nerfed from 5% to 4%. So really would rather not have a similar rework for other sets.

Invader has TOU on both Chest and Shoulder pieces.
Victorious also has TOU on the Cloak, Helmet, Gloves, Boots and Jewelry.
The absorb proc goes perfectly well with TOU builds due to how damage absorption is calculated. Especially when you combine it with the racial absorb tactic.
A friend of mine recently made a similar 3 Invader + 4 Victorious + Grimshimmer Chest build on Magus to great success.

You could potentially also do a 3 Invader + 3 Dominator build if you want to go full on Toughness.


Regarding the Onslaught rework, you literally picked the only example where the stats of a piece where lowered significantly (due to the previous stats being disproportionately good for the item level).
As a whole, Onslaught sets saw an upgrade in both item level and set bonuses. Especially with the new 7pc bonuses for tanks and healers (DOK/WP).

[Zxul]

Invader has almost no toughness mods on parts, meaning barely any total toughness including the set bonus, so not really clear why would you call it a toughness set. Victorious once again has little toughness on parts, and no toughness set bonuses. 10% chance for 233 absorb- which is what 4pc bonus is- very much doesn't makes it worth losing the main defensive stat for, so no idea how exactly are you planning to combine it with toughness build.

The rework for Onslaught was nerfing its mods- as example, armor pen on WE gloves was nerfed from 5% to 4%. So really would rather not have a similar rework for other sets.

Invader has TOU on both Chest and Shoulder pieces.
Victorious also has TOU on the Cloak, Helmet, Gloves, Boots and Jewelry.
The absorb proc goes perfectly well with TOU builds due to how damage absorption is calculated. Especially when you combine it with the racial absorb tactic.
A friend of mine recently made a similar 3 Invader + 4 Victorious + Grimshimmer Chest build on Magus to great success.

You could potentially also do a 3 Invader + 3 Dominator build if you want to go full on Toughness.


Regarding the Onslaught rework, you literally picked the only example where the stats of a piece where lowered significantly (due to the previous stats being disproportionately good for the item level).
As a whole, Onslaught sets saw an upgrade in both item level and set bonuses. Especially with the new 7pc bonuses for tanks and healers (DOK/WP).

You want the grimshimmer chest, so invader chest is already out the window.

Victorious has +10 on most parts, and no toughness set bonus- that is not what is defined as a toughness set. As such the 4pc absorb requires sacrificing toughness to get it- here is the fun part however, among other things, the absorb can only be activated on original application of dot, not on ticks- so if say am, a very common roaming class, hits you with a dot, at most you will get 233 absorb once, and then take the rest of the dot without mitigation from toughness which you sacrificed. Or engi, or lot of other classes which have dots.

No, you can't make a 3 Invader + 3 Dominator build- the only invader part with toughness would be +12 on shoulder. Which would require not using dominator shoulder, which has a +29- 17 toughness lost on just 1 part, before mentioning the two other invader parts which have no toughness whatsoever.

Or in other words, just looking at the set bonuses on wiki and trying to teach how to play people who play magus since live, doesn't works.

As for Onslaught, the only reason people wanted it in the first place were good bonuses on specific parts, and occasional bw/sorc or wh/we for the 4pc proc. The bonuses were nerfed, and so far I haven't seen a single person actually using the full set- because it is not good enough compared to existing options. So you are down to occasional bw/sorc or wh/we for the proc, and whoever if any that wants the set for the appearance. Well, and whoever doesn't cares about Onslaught, and only does it for +24 talis.

[leftayparxoun]

No, you can't make a 3 Invader + 3 Dominator build- the only invader part with toughness would be +12 on shoulder. Which would require not using dominator shoulder, which has a +29- 17 toughness lost on just 1 part, before mentioning the two other invader parts which have no toughness whatsoever.

The set piece bonuses combined with the better stats on Invader due to higher ilvl offset that.
In your current build https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 089/armory (if I got the wrong person I apologize) swapping out:
- Helmet for Invader
- Shoulders for Invader
- Gloves for Dominator
- The LOTD Jewel for Invader Jewel will result in:
+53 armor +6 WOU +20 INT + 32 TOU + 5% Disrupt strikethrough +2% Dodge and + 2 Morale/s
at the cost of 54 Magic Power and 2% Reduced Armor Penetration

Alternatively, you can swap out 1 of the Fleshrender Jewels for the Invader Jewel, which would result in:
+53 armor +6 WOU +35 INT + 26 TOU + 5% Disrupt strikethrough +2% Dodge and + 2 Morale/s
at the cost of 21 Magic Power, 4% Reduced Armor Penetration and 40 HP/4s

Either option to me looks a bit better that what you are currently running.
Armor and reduced armor pen are quite devalued on TOU builds (due to those stats working antagonistically) and in the first case the loss of 34 Intelligence equivalents, or in the second case the 40 HP/4s loss, are both worth it for the Toughness increase combined with the Disrupt strikethrough, Dodge and Morale buffs.

Finally, I would personally run Apocalypse (https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/item/10006) over Demonrend but that's a matter of preference. It has better defensive stats (WOU, TOU) and its defensive proc does not conflict with your mastery build. The Preservation proc from Demonrend doesn't (shouldn't) stack with Aegis of the Orange Fire which is larger. Sure, you can have Preservation procs while Aegis is on cooldown but, unless you are fighting for half a minute, it's not really gonna come up. The Judgement Proc on Apocalypse can mostly offset the INT loss from it.
If you are not running Aegis or somehow need the Vitalize proc on Demonrend for AP sustain then of course that weapon would be preferable.

[Zxul]

No, you can't make a 3 Invader + 3 Dominator build- the only invader part with toughness would be +12 on shoulder. Which would require not using dominator shoulder, which has a +29- 17 toughness lost on just 1 part, before mentioning the two other invader parts which have no toughness whatsoever.

The set piece bonuses combined with the better stats on Invader due to higher ilvl offset that.
In your current build https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 089/armory (if I got the wrong person I apologize) swapping out:
- Helmet for Invader
- Shoulders for Invader
- Gloves for Dominator
- The LOTD Jewel for Invader Jewel will result in:
+53 armor +6 WOU +20 INT + 32 TOU + 5% Disrupt strikethrough +2% Dodge and + 2 Morale/s
at the cost of 54 Magic Power and 2% Reduced Armor Penetration

Alternatively, you can swap out 1 of the Fleshrender Jewels for the Invader Jewel, which would result in:
+53 armor +6 WOU +35 INT + 26 TOU + 5% Disrupt strikethrough +2% Dodge and + 2 Morale/s
at the cost of 21 Magic Power, 4% Reduced Armor Penetration and 40 HP/4s

Either option to me looks a bit better that what you are currently running.
Armor and reduced armor pen are quite devalued on TOU builds (due to those stats working antagonistically) and in the first case the loss of 34 Intelligence equivalents, or in the second case the 40 HP/4s loss, are both worth it for the Toughness increase combined with the Disrupt strikethrough, Dodge and Morale buffs.

Finally, I would personally run Apocalypse (https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/item/10006) over Demonrend but that's a matter of preference. It has better defensive stats (WOU, TOU) and its defensive proc does not conflict with your mastery build. The Preservation proc from Demonrend doesn't (shouldn't) stack with Aegis of the Orange Fire which is larger. Sure, you can have Preservation procs while Aegis is on cooldown but, unless you are fighting for half a minute, it's not really gonna come up. The Judgement Proc on Apocalypse can mostly offset the INT loss from it.
If you are not running Aegis or somehow need the Vitalize proc on Demonrend for AP sustain then of course that weapon would be preferable.

In first case realistically you suggesting trading 34 stat of dmg for 32 toughness (disr strikethrough will give 3% vs anyone twinking disr, or nothing at all vs wh with Shroud up). Here is the funny thing, as someone who actually roams, I will rather kill a bit faster before more order show up.

Second case, will much rather take -4% armor pen, and 40 HP/4s, then 14 stat of dmg and 26 toughness. No idea how did you got the idea that armor and especially reduced armor pen is devalued in toughness builds, when realistically you want both. Especially that with magus's armor self buff, which (intentionally) stacks with armor pot, magus can get a pretty decent armor value.

So no, both options which you are suggesting are worse than what I'm currently using. Even funnier, on top of getting worst stats I would also need to invest a lot of crests into buying the invader, compared to free sentinel, just to downgrade the gear.

Now lets get to the really funny thing. If you were actually playing magus, you would know that the Pilfer proc which Apocalypse has is mitigated by armor since abilities patch, which considering magus has no ws makes it worthless vs anything except cloth armor. Here what it actually looks like, just screenshotted it from my actual ingame magus: