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Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

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GreenWolf2471
Posts: 55

Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#1 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Welcome to the new Lets Theory-craft thread, where you come to give your opinions in a constructive, rage-free manner on the controversial RoR topics of the day.

Today we're talking about Slayers vs Choppas. Specifically why there are so many remarks made all over the forums about Slayer > Choppa.

Please be as specific as you can; use numbers, facts and examples and only then provide your solution.

For example:

Slayers are in a better position than Choppas right now and I think it is based around ability X. You can see clearly than slayer ability X does double the damage of the equivalent Choppa ability Y, this is unfair. To balance this i think you should double the damage of choppa ability Y to bring it on par with Slayer ability X.

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion and helping to resolve this issue.

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zabis
Posts: 1215

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#2 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:59 pm

I totally agree with that it is based around ability X...
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Coryphaus
Posts: 2230

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#3 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:03 pm

Salyers are superiro to choppas in every way and were the second best mdps back on live but only because mara was op and had a lot of bugs.

At every stage of the game slayers are stronger and have better skill trees and skills (slayer 3s kd vs chops 2s kd)

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong and explain how choppas and slayers are on equal footing
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RyanMakara
Posts: 1563

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#4 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:14 pm

Coryphaus wrote:Salyers are superiro to choppas in every way and were the second best mdps back on live but only because mara was op and had a lot of bugs.

At every stage of the game slayers are stronger and have better skill trees and skills (slayer 3s kd vs chops 2s kd)

I challenge anyone to prove me wrong and explain how choppas and slayers are on equal footing
Funny how you put the burden of proof on us while you're using baseless arguments to prove how Slayers are better than Choppas other than the example of their knockdown...

Main problem with Slayers in the game's current state is their ability to stack more strength and weaponskill with their Wild Gambit tactic. 60 toughness won't make these guys any less squishy if their group knows how to keep them alive and yet they have +60 extra strength AND weaponskill over Choppas.
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RyanMakara
Posts: 1563

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#5 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:19 pm

To the OP; we won't see any mirroring class balance issues resolved since the devs would rather focus on balancing careers in general for the time being; in the spectrum of cohesion between all 12 mirror classes rather than one against the other. Slayers and Choppas were the second best MDPS but still not as good as BW/Sorc/SH/SW due to lack of utility and damage in the face of these 4 classes combined. Thus, they got a heal debuff now to make them more useful, not only for the sake of the 'shitty' damage they do compared to these classes. To mirror between Choppa and Slayer right now, probably won't happen, since it's a given that Slayers tend to outperform Choppas with Inevitable Doom/KD/Wild Gambit.
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Coryphaus
Posts: 2230

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#6 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 4:51 pm

RyanMakara wrote: Funny how you put the burden of proof on us while you're using baseless arguments to prove how Slayers are better than Choppas other than the example of their knockdown...

Fine i made this post once before so let me just quote my self
Coryphaus wrote:No it's not just that from beginning till the end slayers have ALL WAYS been better than choppas in fact if it weren't for maras slayers would be the best mdps in the game

First off character models; slayers have much smaller and less noticable models than choppas even when bezerk and they "grow" ( seriously why do they even do this, slayer n chop don't want to be "noticed" when dealing dmg, ibs and bgs don't glow or something when they have full hate ) and when a slayer is bezerk I can't tell the difference but full bezerk choppas are bigger than black orcs and as a glass cannon class the last thing you want to be is "more noticeable"

Next the trees, slayers have hands down better ability trees while mythic compleatly nerfed an neutered the viability of choppas aoe tree b/c Ordo cried about get to da choppa while never touching slayer so they get abilities like inevitable doom, shatter limbs and rampage (the latter which compleatly negates stacking block and parry late game) so unlike choppas who relegate them selves to st slayers can deal both strong st and AoE and if memories serve me correctly in order to deal the dmg expected of them choppas need to stay in red with Wot Rules? tactic but slayers didn't need to stay in red to deal strong dmg.

At every turn slayers are better than choppas hell the mirror kd abilites that both classes get gives slayers a 3s kd and choppas only 2s because mythic is pants on the head retarded
Single target, AoE-ing, solo or zerg; everything choppa can do slayer can do better and is more durable than choppas too cause of how they spec

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=sla ... :;;0:0:0:0:

All those points into their AoE tree really buff their self tough ability , which when paired with needing not needing no rage drop tactic makes them very durable for "glass cannons"
Last edited by Coryphaus on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RyanMakara
Posts: 1563

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#7 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:07 pm

Thank you for elaborating on that, Cory. Since I do agree that Slayers are better than Choppas, I was simply following the OP's ruleset of logical reasoning; this post from another thread has done that properly enough to be considered credible ^^

And yes, I think part of the reason for Choppas and Slayers to grow on 100% rage is exactly because they should be noticed in this stage. And as said, it's unfair for a Slayer to grow only a small amount compared to how a Choppa grows; the only thing that gives it away on the Slayer is their red glow around the head and shoulders. You can counter that effect on a Choppa by dyeing your armor full red, yet you'll always be bigger than a Black Orc :/

As for IB/BGs, maybe make their eyes glow the closer they get to 100 hate, with a trial effect to easily spot it on the move? Would seem like an excellent way to spot it; seeing their visors light up and glow fully as it does on the UI's mechanic.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#8 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:16 pm

coru have right anyway, you dont need to be a genius to look at why aoe slayer are so good

shatter limbs AOE 5sec CD increaseand, last for 10 sec 20 CD /choppa fasta last 10 sec 2 min cd...
rampage ingore 100% defense, spamable + easy rage drop that can be done after de-taunt / no mirror
ID hit x targets and those x target can damage other targets :/ /no mirror....ah coppa get a random aoe pull...for the same...points...

everything coppa does slayer do it better, also it make all this damage aoe so way better than a ST maraunder.

as x t2 all destru classes have still not good stuff, and order had access to alredy a lot of things.
Last edited by Tesq on Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Adell
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Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#9 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:20 pm

If the tactic Finish 'Em Faster was swapped with either Stab You Gooder or Don't Wanna Live Foreva, the Slayer and Choppa would be completely balanced until rank 29.
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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Lets Theory-craft: Slayers vs Choppas

Post#10 » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:24 pm

Why not just swap the hate tactic at 15 out with Don't Wanna Live Foreva and end it that way?

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