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Marauder or choppa?

Let's talk about... everything else
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Razid1987
Posts: 1295

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#21 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:09 am

Bretin wrote:i deleted the post before xaun answered because i realized that i have to argue with the common clueless theory tards spamming into every thread here and i am not rly in mood for that. xauns post made me lol tbh :)
Oh wise one! Forgive us for our sins. Please enlighten us with your awesomeness Kappa

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Bretin
Posts: 929

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#22 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:11 am

being in SoD, still talking ... that's awesome :D

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Razid1987
Posts: 1295

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#23 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:15 am

Bretin wrote:being in SoD, still talking ... that's awesome :D
I have no idea what you are talking about lol

Luth
Posts: 2840

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#24 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:49 am

Spoiler:
Bretin wrote:i deleted the post before xaun answered because i realized that i have to argue with the common clueless theory tards spamming into every thread here and i am not rly in mood for that. xauns post made me lol tbh :)

here's the repost and i'm not gonna reply again since every halfbrained person can see how idiotic the post of xaun is


If you want to determine the balance of a class, you must consider the following attributes:

- How much offensive potential does the class have
- How much defensive potential does the class have
- In what way does the defense restrict the offensive and vice versa (if you’d have a number line, with the numbers 1-10 on the left and right side, which represent your defense resp. offensive, and in the middle a 0, how would it affect the ratio at one side if you’d manipulate the other side?)
Those are general things you have to define before you strive for further deliberations about the balance.

A few facts referring to the mentioned points above:

1. The Marauder has the highest base-damage-values of all mdps-classes, since he never had a damage mechanic or a crit-dmg tactic in the past (GI was too unreliable to count as such one). That didn’t change after the buffs to GI, so that the Marauder has the same dmg modifiers as WE/WH/WL (with restrictions, since all these classes got tactics which increases their dmg modifier but which can be used only limited i.e. Vindication, Masterful Treachery, Revenge etc.), while he has a higher base-damage on his abilities.

However, the Marauder would be able to keep pace even if you consider the above mentioned tactics, since he got a equally strong ability which works without any restrictions regarding to reliability and tactic-slots (Mutated Aggressor).

2. The Marauder is by far the class which deals, almost independently on your target, the most damage in comparison to his maximum damage potential. That means, while every other mdps class is limited to 20-30% of his max. damage potential against some classes and players, the marauder is able to pull off 50-60% of his max. damage potential against the same target. That’s a result of the immense low mitigation a marauder can reach against his target, thanks to the best armor debuff, a toughness debuff and a tactic which let you ignore 50% of the remaining armor and another skill which does not only profit from the above mentioned penetration-possibilities but also ignores a fixed value of armor by itself.

3. The Marauder is the onliest mdps class which has all debuffs you need to kill a target with guard. Every other dps class relies on a second one because she either lack the heal- or armor debuff. The marauder does not only have both of these abilities, no his versions of those abilities are also the strongest ig (best armor debuff and best healdebuff because it can’t be purged by the wp’s group purge on a 5s CD and 10s duration plus 50% heal leech for the Marauder himself. That heal leech contains literally every healing type, including potions and even more preposterous: OVERHEAL!)

3.1 A snare which can’t be purged. Therefore the best snare of all MDPS-classes and combined with charge and terrible embrace it makes the Marauder the best MDPS-class when it comes to prevent your target from kiting.
Also the Marauder has the best HP-debuff ingame, which is the third best debuff after armor and healdebuff you can have on a target. It shouldn’t surprise anyone if I now tell you that this ability is not only bugged but also the best version of HP-debuff the game offers.

4. The Marauder wears “Medium Armor”. No other MDPS-Class has more armor than the Marauder besides a WL who’s using Baited Trap”. The Marauder has the unique ability to make himself immune against armor penetration, if it’s needed. Thus makes the marauder become the toughest MDPS class ingame with only 1 click.

tl:dr:

Let’s summarize why the mrd is “op”:
- More damage potential than any other MDPS-class
- Combines all debuff types and also got the best versions of those
- High combat uptime and the best class to prevent a target from kiting and force them into the assist train
- If needed the toughest MDPS-Class by swapping mutation + the hardest class to kill due to self-heal and heal-leech.
Tztz, like i expected it. The slacker stole mainly medeas' post from waaagh.de and translated it. :mrgreen:

True, but the mara bugs shouldn't work here at all
- no-purge snare was fixed already, but is back atm unfortunately
- healdebuff tactic should work like expected
- piercing bite should work like expected

Imo with the mara damage buff, one or two of the important debuffs should have been removed (maybe wounds and thoughness) to create a need for other mDPS.
The monstro proc is completely ridiculous, 100% armor penetration immunity is way too strong.
Should be rebalanced to a fixed armor buff or even thoughness buff, or if not possible at least don't proc while it is up.

Bretin
Posts: 929

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#25 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:58 am

Firstly, let me clarify I'm not saying the Mara is a weak or underpowered class. However I do feel the commonly held belief that it's a pseudo tank dealing top melee damage is a fallacy long upheld by Order at least in part to draw attention away from the glaringly obvious one-side-only realm-disparity defects in the original design
+50% AA haste
+group crit (Encouraged Aim + Leading Shots + Dirty Tricks) - supplemented by +ST crit (Ancestor's Fury)
Focused Mending
2x rKD
Exalted Defences
Runefang+Emperor's Champion
Pounce
Destroy Confidence (1x (core!) tactic neutralizes a whole destro class)
ID
Rampage & Shatter Limbs (on prime mdps) vs Bad Gas on a career spec that almost no SH plays
That has nothing to do with my post and I have no clue why you try to argue with abilities which are widely spreaded on multiple order chars when I’m talking about the class balance of mrd.
Let's not misuse the word 'fact' when you actually mean 'commonly held belief'
Kthxbai.
I'm not sure you're factoring in stat contribution coefficients to abilities (at least on Live)
ST dps Marauder vs ST dps Choppa vs ST dps WE - all gear being equal - Choppa wins hands down
Furthermore, no mdps class has more frontloaded burst than the WL, and in a game where (outside of 1v1 and PvE), burst>>>>sustatined - WL has the upper hand
I’m talking about tooltip damage (base-damage) so again you can’t make a point and try to argue with some bs.
Glad you brought up GI, let's compare +crit dmg tactics on mdps
Mara: Growing Instability (7pt +50% crit dmg tactic)
Choppa: Stab you Gooder (core +25% crit dmg tactic)
WE: Increased Pain (7pt +50% crit dmg tactic)
WL: Pack Synergy (core +50% crit dmg tactic)
Slayer: Fierce Might (7pt +10-90% crit dmg tactic)
WH: Fanatical Cleansing (7pt +50% crit dmg tactic)
Now let's compare the other big component for an always-on boost to ST dps - Autoattacks and the availability of +AA haste tactics on mdps

Mara: nope, nothing, nada
Choppa: Git stuck in ( [Core Ability] +35% AA Haste to group, up 20s, cooldown 60s, cost 15 AP and 1 GCD)
WE: nope, nothing, nada
WL: Pack Hunting (7pt +50% AA Haste tactic - 100% uptime, no AP cost)
Slayer: Push for More (core +25-50% AA Haste tactic - 100% uptime, no AP cost)
WH: Fanatical Cleansing (7pt +50% AA Haste tactic - 100% uptime, no AP cost)
We’re still talking about mrd base dmg values + GI. Again you try to argue with realm balance and mindless bs.
Given that Mara/SH and WL/SW are a wierd 4-way cross mirror
See: (Mara) Mutated Aggressor (9pt career ability - no restriction)
See: (SW) Vengeance of Nagarythe (free/core)
See: (WL) Primal Fury (9pt career ability - sides/back)
See: (SH) Seems like they don't have one (although it's late, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Mara needs to be in melee to benefit from this, SW gets this bonus from the relative safety of range
I’m aware of other classes, thanks, it’s still about mrd base dmg + gi + dmg modifier w/o restrictions.
I have no clue what you're making up now or where you get these percentage stats...
From live experience, calculations and **** tons of dps tests.
... and by this you mean, exactly the same Armor debuff that the WL has...
Yes but what’s your point? It’s still the best armor debuff ig.
..wait wut?
Copy full sentence and don’t make yourself look dumb.
Bretin wrote: mdps class which has all debuffs you need to kill a target with guard.
So which mdps class does have a armor and incoming healdebuff except mrd? Pls enlighten me.
I encourage you to try to dps a healer (especially WP) through guard on a Marauder, here in T2 or when we get to T4 without and assist train.
Again bs, you should learn to read. I said mrd is the onliest class who can bring up all the debuffs, not is the onliest class who can kill a guarded target by himself.
lol. It _can_ be purged, just not by a WP.
Lololol where did I say that It’s not purgable?
Furthermore if you're looking at ~100% uptime heal debuffs - DoK, BG, IB, WH, WE)
It’s about incoming hd’s not outgoing. That’s a difference. I’m arguing with the fact mrd hd can’t be purged by grp purge and has a 100% uptime if you’re halfbrained.
Im sure Aza will fix that, hopefully along with CD on Pounce, cleansable ID, melee-range shatter confidence, Rampage not affecting AoE etc and all the other obvious bugs
Stop drifting away and bringing up realm balance whenever you can’t argue.
... save WL, who along with a snare of their own, have a snare from their pet and fetch ... oh and let's not forget Pounce without a cooldown ...
Both can be purged. Again realm balance discussion? Cmon you can do better.
Indeed - it (along with Cutting Claw) are compelling reasons to consider a Mara for one of the dps slots, although he will still deal less ST dmg than a Choppa
No he won’t. Not against any half brained player.
Nope - see: WL + Choppa + Slayer
Mid combat slayer and choppa has less armor than mrd or sacrifice a dmg loss. Mrd doesn’t lose any dmg.
Whilst this was powerful on Live, Aza has said he may not code this (it's not in the game in any capacity atm) the same way it was.
Did anyone ask for fixes? Realm balance or any other bs you try to argue with or do we iscuss about mrd?
Clearly not.
Clearly yes. Highest arpen, highest base-damage, same modifiers as other classes, GI.
Mara is the Destro debuff bot, and barring Wounds debuff - has a mirror on the Order side
In a BS tree for a BS slayer spec ikr.
Your argument here is that the Mara snare is not an ailment (but still needs to be able to land it IN melee for it to work) and he has TE
You should stop key strafing.
And you're seriously comparing that MORE favorably than spammable Pounce, a pet that can also snare and Fetch?
Strong pet is strong, don’t make yourself look like an idiot.
WL > Mara when it comes to mdps vs kiter
Aha. The realm balance discussion again far away from mrd discussions.
Worth a notable mention here (albeit not mdps) - is the 2x rKD that Order have too to mitigate anti-kiters that Destro has no mirror for
The realm balance again.
Not saying that they (Monstro heal ticks) aren't appreciated - but let's call a spade a spade, it is

--a chance to proc
----a low value HoT
--------if you are within range to land a melee blow
--------(same applies to heal-leech, but further limited to IF the target is being healed)
-100% armor penetration. Nuff said, but keep talking about heals.[/quote]
All in all you didn’t make a single point and I still don’t get why I made this post. Maybe to proof that you’re an clown w/o any knowledge and the reason why I did delete my post at first.
I’m done.

Bretin
Posts: 929

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#26 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:23 pm

Luth wrote:Tztz, like i expected it. The slacker stole mainly medeas' post from waaagh.de and translated it. :mrgreen:
slacker is the right word :D
who are you detective conan? :<

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Razid1987
Posts: 1295

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#27 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:29 pm

Bretin wrote:
Luth wrote:Tztz, like i expected it. The slacker stole mainly medeas' post from waaagh.de and translated it. :mrgreen:
slacker is the right word :D
who are you detective conan? :<
With your superior brain, you should be able to figure that out yourself, I would guess Kappa

Luth
Posts: 2840

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#28 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:12 pm

Bretin wrote:
Luth wrote:Tztz, like i expected it. The slacker stole mainly medeas' post from waaagh.de and translated it. :mrgreen:
slacker is the right word :D
who are you detective conan? :<
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Archayon
Posts: 4

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#29 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:58 pm

So which one should you pick?

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tazdingo
Posts: 1200

Re: Marauder or choppa?

Post#30 » Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:23 pm

mara has a mid range st pull choppa has a short range aoe pull. if you're gonna be pugging around in the lakes this is literally all that matters, both have an aoe button to press

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