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Reset WL Pounce

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RyanMakara
Posts: 1563

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#41 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:44 am

SilverWF wrote:
Morf wrote:
woohoo wrote:
This be with Runaway cooldown?
run away has a 25% proc chance and takes up a tactic slot, its not an ability, further more i would be open to ideas if it means the abundance of order counters that dont just affect the 2 classes with run away are removed or atleast looked into.
Its 100 times easier to kite as order then it is destro, i would recommend playing destro and a gobbo and see for yourself then speculating about things.
It's 100 times easier to whine about something you didn't know.
So your suggestion will be unanswered forever.
How about we add Run Away to AM/SW and give Maras the ability to pounce? That'd make fights hella funny. White Lions don't have flood the forums with tears about having their pounce stripped away and AMs/SWs can actually learn to kite, while the Mara gets another useful ability on their list! /sarcasm

Of course Order's going to defend the pounce ability with 'b-but muh gobbos suh fast can't catch them QQ' and of course Gobbos will tell you how little that tactic actually procs, it all depends on what side you're getting pwnt on. Removing both pounce and the kite tactics MIGHT balance things if you made Shamans just as good at DPS as AMs and gave Squig Herders a ranged knockdown that doesn't come from their pet. That, or make pounce only usable on Gobbos since that's the only reason they got pounce in the first place; to catch up to those filthy greenies.
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Nanji
Posts: 312

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#42 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:00 am

Morf wrote: I think Bretin is having a fit somewhere because not being able to pounce in midair means pounce is no longer a viable ability :lol:

maybe this timeline will help you to see where devs seemingly want to go

1. nerf pounce -> wl not viable
2. playing double slayer with id and sm with ww
3. id nerf
4. playing double bw with annihilate and sm with ww
5. annihilate nerf -> ww barely useful -> going ib
6. ib/kobs + sl/sl + wp/wp (as it was back on mythics servers)
7. people still cry "mara weak, order biased"
8. thanks?
9. the tears
inactive on forums to avoid final ban

class imbalance = l2p issue

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SilverWF
Suspended
Posts: 606

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#43 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:59 am

RyanMakara wrote:How about we add Run Away to AM/SW and give Maras the ability to pounce? That'd make fights hella funny.
Sure it will be funny: strongest dueler in the game with gobbo tactics.
Ok, let's do that, but do not forget give 2 extra DOTs (1 of them with heal debuff) to shammy and his slow pool will be with the INI debuff too.
This will be fair.
Bretin: "destru classes are in general better for solo play" :lol:
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Aceboltz
Posts: 254

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#44 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:09 am

So tuning down the gap closer on a melee class that got snare immunity and sprint like others, a better snare than others mdps , a pet and a root M1 suddenly makes WL not viable???
If this is really the case, it means pounce is just a goddamn I-win button and it's good it is nerfed.

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Nanji
Posts: 312

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#45 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:16 am

Aceboltz wrote:So tuning down the gap closer on a melee class that got snare immunity and sprint like others, a better snare than others mdps , a pet and a root M1 suddenly makes WL not viable???
If this is really the case, it means pounce is just a goddamn I-win button and it's good it is nerfed.
Spoken like a real solo player.
Snare is provided by tanks mainly. WL snare gives an advantage twice a month.
Root is also provided by tanks, even an unbreakable on, while WL M1 is mostly used for fanboying targets.
Pet..... reallly? It is more like a disadvantage since killing it, if the enemy is not dumb, will strip the WL off its crit tactic and the relatively high pet dmg.

Yes, it does remove the viability from the WL making the slayer/bw a superior choice.
inactive on forums to avoid final ban

class imbalance = l2p issue

Aceboltz
Posts: 254

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#46 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:30 am

The ability to snare a rdps that carefully stays outside of tank range doesn't mean anything on a mpds, sure ...
And don't act like the pet is hard to resummon or wl is the only class that looses a lot when the pet is killed.

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Nanji
Posts: 312

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#47 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:35 am

Aceboltz wrote:The ability to snare a rdps that carefully stays outside of tank range doesn't mean anything on a mpds, sure ...
And don't make it like the pet is hard to resummon or wl is the only class that looses a lot when the pet is killed.
Pounce 65f range, sh range with tactic ~100f.
When you pounce to a target which is running without snare, not even mentioning run away, you cant snare due to meleerange issues. (hidden l2p issue)
Kill the lion equals a 15s no dmg time for WL.
WL looses crit tactic and lion dmg, whole sh looses what? 5% crit? and pet dmg?
Please dont compare lion pet loss to squig loss, it is simply not comparable.

There you go. More pseudo arguments pls. :)
inactive on forums to avoid final ban

class imbalance = l2p issue

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SilverWF
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Posts: 606

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#48 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:39 am

May I ask you: what is wrong in "solo play"? Please, leave alone that stupid argument "this is not 1vs1 game" - while there is no bans for being in the RVR not within WB this will be "the game whatever you want to play"
And I personally think, playing solo requires much more skill, than being a part of machine.
Anyway.

Do not forget about Lion's snare, literally with 90% of uptime.

If you are talking about punishement for being solo (if you are solo, WL will kick your ass), so why only Destro classes must suffer from it?
if you are solo, so WL or AM or Wh or BW or IB will kick your ass hardly.
Doesn't it will be fair if Order classes will suffer too?
But Destro doesn't have such "solo punisher" classes now. Why?
Gobbos can run, but only that: Shammy's damage is LOL and he can't kill healers, SH always suffer from AP lacking and low number of CCs
Tanks will suffer from removing AP regen while flee
Chosen didn't have mass detaunt
BG didn't have so many good selfbuffs and crazy DOTs
Sorc didn't have CC and defense
Mara can't jump to target with no CD
WE didn't have so strong finishers

So name me any Destro class, able to deliver pain to any Order class while solo play, please?
Sure, with equal skill and gear. Killing ungeared noobs wouldn't be any argument.

And if you are talking about SH.
SH has bigger CD on pets and can't summon it while moving.
Are you really playing Desto?
Bretin: "destru classes are in general better for solo play" :lol:
A lot of addons here | Just a few T3 vids from live game | Remove IP-blocking at forum!

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Aceboltz
Posts: 254

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#49 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:53 am

Nanji wrote: When you pounce to a target which is running without snare, not even mentioning run away, you cant snare due to meleerange issues. (hidden l2p issue)
The pet has is own permasnare and runs faster than players. More QQ please.

How about SH that loose the greatest disarm in game when the pet is killed? This skill is no only good for solo play, it's great for group play because with it you can save other players from ennemy melees and prevent rkd and refreshing of snare and debuff amoung other things. They also loose their sprint and some damage.
How about engineers that are so **** without their turret and tools?

Bretin
Posts: 929

Re: Reset WL Pounce

Post#50 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:56 am

My first thought was to not reply at all but yet I can’t. There is too much bullshit in this forum and too many people with literally no idea what they are talking about i.e. SilverWF, Corpyhaust, Morfee and Tesq. And apparently the dev team starts listening to them.

I don't get why the WL Pounce should've deserved any nerfs except the Z aegis one which was okay. Pounce is a unique ability and makes that class what it is. He is widely called out to be underpowered, the gimp of T4 and what not if you ask the above named people. Imho he was always viable and still is, just not as good as the ones you would compare him to (Slayer and Marauder). Yet he is insanely fun to play and after all viable even tho he will stink if you directly compare him to either slayer or marauder.

Ask yourself what the WL is really good at and seperates him from other classes and you will end up with the answer: Fast target swaps and high single target burst. Basically he is a high risk/high reward class. HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD WAT? No worries kevin i will explain that one for you: if you decide to pounce in and burst one down you might leave heal / guard range so it's high risk. If the people are to dumb to position, i agree there is no risk. But don't we balance around proper group PvP instead of l2p issues?

He is already a cripple AP wise, sustain dmg wise and except the armor debuff he has literally no benefits for the group. He is the only class w/o a incoming healdebuff which i think is still nice because if you really aim for balance, no class should have both a incoming healdebuff and a debuff for his own damage type. Classes should rely on each other instead of being a dumb one man show. But why would you nerf a class which is in no way too strong and make changes which affect the gameplay of that class while there are serious things you should care about? i don't get it. i know it is your game and you can do whatever you want, i and i'm sure we all do really appreciate your work but those changes really let me think about your class/game understanding even tho i'm sorry to say that.

We have classes like the marauder or the slayer and quite a lot of bugs and yet you decided to nerf a class which should receive a buff if you ask the majority of the WL playerbase instead of implementing a major change which has a huge impact on his gameplay. If you want to nerf pounce or if it doesn't fit to your vision of class design then i don't get why the marauder is allowed to have the following things:

Highest HP Debuff ingame
Highest Armor Debuff ingame
Best incoming Heal Debuff ingame
Toughness Debuff
Toughness and Str Buff
Heal Leech (including Overheal, Pots, Damage Heal)
AP Drain
AP Increase
Immunity to Armor Penetration
Selfheal
Damage Modifier which doesn't have any requirements
Piercing Bite
Self Crit Tactic
Crit Damage Tactic w/o requirements
Crit Increase for Group
Wave of Terror which is THE best ability in any large scale fight
Highest tooltip damage ingame
AP Tactic
Core AoE Interrupt
Unpurgable Snare
Superior Fetch compared to WL

If you really want to balance something then start here! My suggestions are:

Change the incoming HD into a Outgoing and remove the heal from potions and overheal. It will still be better than wl outgoing since it's in savagery and the main tree of marauder.
Change piercing bite and let it only affect the abilities of his damage tree (Brutality).
Remove the immunity to armor penetration from Monstrosity and give him a armor buff equal to baited trap.

After that change the 13 points mastery of the WL and move the outgoing hd to hunter and add something more useful to Whirling Axe which will be placed in Axeman. Remove the requirement from Primal Fury and i'm sure nobody would've cried that loud if you'd changed pounce! But right now that change is simply dumb, sorry.

@Aceboltz you should really l2p(osition) if pounce is a issue you need to care about on your sh you do something wrong.

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