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[Slayer] Retribution

For proposals that have been rejected.
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tionblack
Posts: 302

[Slayer] Retribution

Post#1 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:47 am

Identify the issue:

The skill is very useless nearly in every situation there is always another viable action to take.As a level 40 skill it should bring more to the table. (Also it triggers every 1 second.)


Why it’s an issue:

It is because you gain too little for a skill such as Retribution ( lvl40).It being channeling i think is the biggest issue.
So when we can use this skill?When we are overrun by a melee train.So at those times you really dont want your hands full with retribution since there are always more viable actions to take or you mostly die under the pressure.
It having 1 second internal cooldown also making the skill even more weaker.
Propose a solution:

1)Remove the channeling part of the skill make us slayers activate it and take free action .( 1 min cooldown makes it fair enough)( I highly suggest this,since it drains ap wont be possible to keep it up forever)
Spoiler:
2)Add some kind of defensive or offensive bonuses in it:
a)ability to parry even from behind for 10 seconds on top of damage,still channeling.(it wont be overpowered cause it drains your ap)
b)% 10 more parry bonus
c)remove internal cooldown
Those above or some of them combined.Or maybe a more creative idea you might have to offer would be really good.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Slayer]Retribution[Re-proposing to new balance team]

Post#2 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:47 am

2
a) Nope. You should not be able to parry abilities from behind. This used in conjunction with M1 Confusing Movements + Riposte would become extremely OP (moreso than it arguably is already)

b) Slayers already possess incredibly high levels of parry. I am not sure what this would serve? You have IBs that grant 25% more parry as it is!

c) No ICD = this would become too good for a core ability in large scale environments. Would be OP in certain environments.

That being said, the first part of your proposal will be open for discussion.

Should Retribution - a pretty mediocre skill in its current form - have its channeled component removed, and instead become a thorns-esque buff? Would this make it more useful? What are the pros and cons of this?

Discussion open until 10th JULY
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Athergic
Posts: 276

Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#3 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:26 pm

Would this affect the choppa ability?

I don't think it should have the channel removed, a click and forget core ability seems like to much for free. Removing a channel from an ability is probably a lot more work than adjusting the numbers to make it more useful as an anti kite ability.
Spoiler:
I think a .5 second slow per proc would be interesting, to at least help close the distance while channeling or increase it. What about just boosting the damage on it a little, or making it proc on your offensive target only?
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Smellybelly
Posts: 298

Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#4 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:11 pm

Difficult call considering how powerful the slayer already is, however two things need to be considered 1: If the return dmg from the channel and the proc rate is low enough for Retribution to not be a viable choice at all, then it should be buffed in some manner.
2: A large part of slayer dps is made up from auto attacks, if you channel you dont do any of those attacks and that dps loss needs to be somehow calculated into the dmg output of the skill, otherwise it fills no purpose, UNLESS, it procs all over the place in a warband enviroment.

licenje
Posts: 84

Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#5 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:29 pm

Spoiler:
Well i dont tink slayer needs new buff you got 3 or 4 allready ... if you use rampage... its allready hard to waste global cd for any of buffs and now you wona one more.

Its not topic related but from my exp only skill that needs rework on slayers is "Slow down" 5 sec duration and 10 sec cd for slow is bad... people just get away from you... you can use "No escape" if you are aoe spec but that is gamble with 10-40% slow and 10 sec duration and 30 sec cd... and with 15 sec of fight req for KD its hard to keep ppl close, they just walk away...

Well only my opinion :) Hf
Warning given. Completely unrelated to the topic at hand, and you decided to go on a tangent. May this serve as an example to people who just want to moan/not discuss the issue. - ptp3

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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#6 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:36 pm

That is a dead skill, not worth a spot on a skill bar, especially, when it doesn't work on ranged attacks (and it should imo).

Removing the channeling requirement might make it worth using sometimes, as slayer in its base gameplay form has to maintain good autoattack values, which channeled skill completely negates.
So, it should be really powerful offensive/defensive wise if it has to deny such a large chunk of dps from AA.
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nainquoi
Posts: 77

Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#7 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:44 pm

Hello how can I say that after seeing changes on the order class esque the order would be advantageous compared to the destruction or it can be me who missed an episode because so far not yet open discussion for some character of destruction.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#8 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:07 pm

nainquoi wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:44 pm Hello how can I say that after seeing changes on the order class esque the order would be advantageous compared to the destruction or it can be me who missed an episode because so far not yet open discussion for some character of destruction.
Not sure I understood you correctly, but if I did... if Retribution were changed, it's safe to say Choppa's Bring It On would be too.
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adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#9 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:11 pm

It seems like you would have to make it too good if you wanted to make it worth using damage wise.

Better to add utility or something like that. Being able to proc off any attack, would be the best solution. I feel like it used to do that though, so its probably been changed and probably wont be changed back.

You could make it like rune of absorption. Make it defensive by negating the berserk penalty while you Channeled. Make it snare people that it damages. Increase your speed while you channel. Ignore CC while you channel.

Its obviously not worth using in its current state. Lots of ways you could make it worth using. Trying to make the damage high enough to justify I think is the wrong direction. But what the OP suggested would work and be a good way to change it if you wanted to keep it a straight melee damage increase.

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Wdova
Posts: 680
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Re: [Slayer]Retribution [Close Date 10th July]

Post#10 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:39 pm

I was thinking about this useless skill few days ago. I think we gonna have hard time to give this lvl 40 skill any meaningful usefulness. Its true I never had it sloted in any action bar on live same as here on RoR.

Make it thorn effect is horrible idea because as a slayer or choppa You dont want to be hit at all. You are no tank, You are utter squishy especialy in red!

I would like to see this skill gives some defences like HTL(25% chance to dodge and disrubt for X seconds), but thanks to issue with disrubt we have to face, I dont think this gonna ever happen.

There is also option to remove its channel component and redesign it in to some party buff(this is provided by tanks so I am not sure with this)

It can also be redesigned in to 2nd AOE dot like Yer bleeding now/Onslaught but with initiate debuff component(remove 90 initiate in in full tree for the duration of the dot. Probably 9 seconds?)

It is verry hard to make this skill any use and not break class balance, but considering THIS should be the most powerfull core skill in Slayer and Choppa arsenal, I think it should be powerfull enough to worth sloting it in action bar.
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