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[WP] 15pt Grace Ability

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

[WP] 15pt Grace Ability

Post#1 » Mon May 21, 2018 11:35 am

Disclaimer: This is a reworking of a previous proposal of mine, after I noticed an interest in 15 pt abilities in the balance forum moderation, in the hope that it will be more attractive.

THE ISSUE:

I think most people would agree that the current state of melee healing in RoR is underperforming, and most people would also agree that the reasons for that state are several. To name a few:
1. lack of anti cc tools and gap closers. Melee healer has to hit stuff and can be easily perma neutralized by enemy cc.
2. survivability issues. The melee healer needs to be on the frontline and is the primary target of the enemies. Guard will often be cast on mdps instead of melee healers.
3. balance issues. Providing the melee healer with the necessary tools for their job can result in overbuffing them. The line is very fine here.

WHY IT IS AN ISSUE:

In my opinion, the main problem resides in the fact that, in order to allow melee healers to perform in a sufficiently effective way, a lot of things have to be altered, buffed or transformed.

-a To begin with, they need anti cc tools to help them stay on their target and avoid being taken out of the equation eaasily.
-b Then they need a significant amount of strikethrough to grind their way through the avoidance-heavy frontline of enemy melee.
-c Then their healing attacks need to be allowed to bypass bubbles and mitigation.

c has been adressed by the flat amount of healing in abilities like sigmars radiance, but it needs a valuable tactic slot to be of any use and even then it's quite underwhelming, because of a and to some extent b.


To sum up, we need a way to address all these problems in as simple and effective a way as possible.

GENERAL SOLUTION:

Instead of making a lot of difficult and dangerous changes to allow melee healers to be able to consistently and efficiently hit the enemy, survive in the frontline and not be too OP, I propose the opposite. What I propose is to implement a way to make the melee healer heal their group NOT ONLY BY HITTING BUT ALSO BY BEING HIT. This is not to substitute, obviously, but to compliment the standard melee healing activity and to make up for the frequent downtime of melee healers cc'd and rendered useless.

SPECIFIC CHANGE:
A new 15pt ability in the Grace tree, SIGMAR'S PROTECTION. For 10 seconds, everytime you are hit you have a 25% chance to absorb 550 damage and receive 5 RF. All groupmates within 30 ft wil benefit from the absorb effect. 30 seconds cd. Instant cast. 20 AP per sec. Doesn't break detaunt. (would be a buff, not a channel, obviously)

This change means:

-A panic button (issue: survivability)
-A way to heal when cc'd (issue: healing downtime or even neutralization of melee healing when cc'd)
-Utility (this would make melee healers more attractive in a group setting)


-DPS WPs wouldn't avail themselves of thiss because it would mean forsaking almost all their goodies, and
obviously 2hand requirement to avoid casted heals WP using this ability.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree

Post#2 » Mon May 28, 2018 12:50 am

Open for discussion. Will be locked in TWO WEEKS from now (11th June).
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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#3 » Mon May 28, 2018 10:05 am

Btw I forgot to include an ICD for the absorb proc. probably 1 sec. The idea was to have something similar to zealot's absorb ritual but obviously more powerful as the proposed ability would be way higher up in the skill tree and has a 1/3 uptime.

The "doesn't break detaunt" part obviously doesn't apply for a bubble proc. My bad, It was a remnant from a previous idea of mine of making the proposed ability into a "martyr"- like proc that would steal health on % being hit.

All in all, all three types of group utility (absorb, health steal or plain healing) could be considered. The only thing that's really important imo is the idea that healing the group on being hit can go some way to solving a lot of the issues inherent to the melee healer job.

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live4treasure
Posts: 270

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#4 » Mon May 28, 2018 12:14 pm

I actually think that the 20ap per second thing is too restrictive and makes the ability a bit underpowered even. Maybe I'm wrong, but if it's a panic button, then it should have at least a somewhat reasonable chance of allowing you to survive a hardfocus when guarded and/or using aoe detaunt, and I think maybe the 20 ap per second would just drain you instantly. Maybe just remove that entirely and have it be a simple 25% chance to proc a shield?

Also question, does this mean that your allies also recieve a 25% chance to proc a shield when hit, or do they recieve the shield when you proc it?
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#5 » Mon May 28, 2018 1:31 pm

I was thinking allies will also proc bubble when hit, just like zealot absorb ritual. And you are right about AP cost, It'd make the ability weak.

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#6 » Mon May 28, 2018 4:32 pm

Just to clarify your proposed solution,

Sigmar's Protection: Instant Cast. 30s cooldown. Costs X AP. Apply a buff on groupmates within 30ft for 10s. Whenever target(s) is hit, there is a 25% to create a 550 absorb over Ys. Each time this effect triggers, you will gain 5RF. This effect cannot happen more than once per second on each target.

Is this what you are aiming for? Want to make sure before discussing.

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#7 » Mon May 28, 2018 4:58 pm

Yes, you have worded it very accurately. But I'd like to make clear that that is only a starting point for discussion. I am in no way adamant about those values (nor am I really entitled to be) and I haven't really discarded other types of group support such as healing or health steal instead of my proposed absorb.

As I said before, my main goal is to advance the idea that healing ON BEING HIT could help alleviate some of the very intrincate issues of melee healing. (Btw, sigmars shield also provides healing when the WP is hit, but the WP has to be to connect a hit in the first place, which is part of the problem with melee healing.)

Actually, I take this proposal as a way to contrast my opinions with others and hopefully learn from players with far more experience and insight than myself.

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#8 » Mon May 28, 2018 5:08 pm

Also, from a lore and game design point of view, I think that the concept of the warrior priest as a martyr suits melee healing to a T. The devoted warrior-saint of the faith fighting his enemies in the frontline with a big hammer in his hand, sacrificing valiantly his own flesh and blood, and turning his physical suffering into a blessing for his allies. Unlike his casted heals brethren who stand in the relative safety of the backlines. That requires the warrior priest not only inflicting damage, but also taking damage to perform that holy transformation.

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Culdu
Posts: 70

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#9 » Mon May 28, 2018 5:35 pm

I don't think that ability would really improve the group utility or reliability of Grace/Sacrifice healers.

It would just add a panic button to save yourself or for small scale 2-3 man, in which melee healers are already good.

In group fights + the typical problem of melee healing is that you are kited. When you get kicked, or won your "private" Tank who snares and kicks you whenever possible. Your proposal wouldn't help you to keep any of your groupmates alive, because none of them will be in 30 feet.

Next problem of healing in general is hard focus. As melee healer you are good to counter that, IF you have a soft target. If your target is hard, your healing is low. Your ability would help with that, but also, only if you are in 30 feet . Probably not going to happen often. So that ability would just suit to keep yourself alive.

Easy answer would now be .... make it a 100 feet. But a 10 sec whole grp gets 550 absorb every second in focus seems a "bit" op. That's at all more absorb than m3 and that is only melee absorb.

I also don't think, that it is suitable for the playstyle of melee healer to just add a strong panic button. That doesn't really fit into the hybrid nature.

I my eyes melee healer only needs a reliable option to heal , even if only for a short period of time, in every situation (except hard cc ). A usefull cast heal would be perfect for that. The previous ab ex idea, to temporary buff willpower by hitting to be able to cast if necessarywas exactly what is required to make the class more reliable. You still have to hit soft targets for good melee heal, but you can buff your willpower on a hard target to cast heals. Offers a lot a possible playstyles. By slotting or not slotting damage tactics you can match your preferred playstyle of more castheal or more hitheal. In face of high disrupts perhaps change from willpower to healing power ...

Only problem, why that was little or not noticed, was the undefendable, way to overpowered melee heal included in ab ex which made the class completly retarded, no brainer. Include the willpower / healing power buff when you got client control but leave all the other ab ex stuff of grace/sacrifice out and it will be fine.

Greetings Starilas

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

Re: New 15pt ability in Grace tree [Close Date 11th June]

Post#10 » Mon May 28, 2018 5:56 pm

Then make it 100ft but adjust the value of absorb so that it's not OP ;)
I fail to see why a panic button is not compatible with the hybrid nature of melee healing, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

About the willpower buff of ab exe I see your point and agree it was a good approach, and also agree that the rest of the stuff was overperforming. The problem with that truly hybrid approach is that some people have already tried it, and even if the willpower buff of ab exe was back it would imply speccing high enough in salvation tree for the abilities to heal significantly. That isn't really difficult with moderately high renown rank, but the fact remains that AoE detaunt is in the Wrath tree, making it a little bit hard on hybrid Salv-Grace healing for the time being.

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