Recent Topics

Ads

Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.
User avatar
Vdova
Posts: 555

Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#1 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:44 pm

Since SH class is something devs looking at(especialy path of Stabbin), I think there are also ranged abbilities which needs attention.

1st is Poison Areer from Big shooting tree. Tooltip dmg is ok, but in real life dmg mittiation is so high, that it bring its usefullnes behind Plink spam. Compared to snipe or magus bolt which has also 3s cast and contribute from weapon skill and armor debuff from turret or magus ST rezist debuff from horror pet,SHs poison arrer doesnt contribute from weapon skill nor armor debuff and also SH doesnt posses corporal debuff. From my point of view was the reason why SW recieved rezist bypasss tactic,but original devs forgot to give somethink also to SHs.
I propose change tactic: I Feelz Yer pain(50 ap if crit with big shooting abbility) in to 100% rezist bypass for Poison Areer.

2nd is Behind Ya! For its 14! mastery points requirement it doesnt bring anything special than insta cast. 10s CD, positional requirement(only from behind) and its verry low tooltip dmg(only about 45% dmg of Shadow warriors Flanking shoot which has also critical chance formula in it) makes it weak for its cost.
I propose increase its dmg value and give it some special effect(critical chance, critical dmg) to make it worth 14 mastery points.

Edit: Since SW recieved his 100% rezist bypas back, I propose mirror it to SH with same value.
Vdova - Witch elf princess of suffer and despair

Ads
Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#2 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:07 pm

Moving to Discussions. I suggest focusing on Behind Ya!, and maybe something else for Poison Arrer that is not a 100% mirroring of Enchanted Arrows.

User avatar
Thayli
Posts: 134

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#3 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:49 pm

Poison Arrer
Lategame resists are well within 40-50% and as a result slotting Enchanted Arrows basically makes Festering Arrow hit twice as hard. Squig Herder has nothing like this, and nothing besides improving the relative damage output of Poison Arrer is going to put the skill in the same ballpark as Shadow Warrior's Festering Arrow. There's more ways to do this than to simply mirror the resist bypass tactic. Base damage could be upped so the final damage after resistances is roughly the same as Festering Arrow's with Enchanted Arrows slotted. Things such as AP cost and cooldown can be fiddled with to balance out not having to slot a tactic for it.

Behind Ya!
I still do not know what niche this skill is supposed to fill. The damage is weak and the conditions are restrictive. At the very least, the damage should be increased to even merit spending a point on it. Maybe add an increased crit modifier?

Personally, the main changes I want to see for Squig Herder are tweaks to Path of Stabbin' and fixes to the overall clunkiness of Squig Armor and the according playstyle.
Thayli - SH
Thlayli - SQ


[Phalanx]

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#4 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:11 pm

Spoiler:
Festering arrow is a long cast and requires range. It's tree is the range glass cannon build with which you have limited survivability and options.

A squig has 30% speed bonus and pets that distract the enemy.

If they receive the ability at the same power, the ease of using said ability should also be equalised.

If there is a 100% bypass, SWs should get a 30% speed bonus tactic/ability.

You cannot have both an easy to use AND powerful ability. If you do, the other class should not have a difficult to use and powerful ability. That is completely unfair.

If you want squigs to have more strength against tanks, which is one of the VERY few areas they lack, you should sacrifice something (kiting) to avoid squigs from becoming the best at the most.

I fully agree on path of stabbing changes. The more options for squigs, the less griefers.
Not discussing SWs. Stick to discussing BY and PA - Penril

User avatar
Stinkyweed
Posts: 458

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#5 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:32 pm

Spoiler:
Other valuable things the SW has that the SH does; rKD, VoN, Hunters Fervor, M1 Cleanse, GCD stackable DoTs for burst...so perhaps we should create a matrix of similarities and differences without just shutting down the idea of an elemental bypass for herders?
Not discussing SWs. - Penril


Behind Ya should be set up as it was in 1.4.7. I do not know why it didn't come over like the SW version did. Instead of a direct damage increaser, maybe a small DoT added to compensate for the lower dmg.

Patch 1.4.7
""Behind Ya!" - Ability will scale the chance to deal critical damage upward based on the amount of life lost by the target!"


An elemental bypass for Poison Arrer and Explodin Shot may be a good compromise. May need to be careful with the impact on Indigestion...AoE Corp damage....would need testing to check if op.

Alternatives, a tactic that makes is 1/2 cast time, 1.5secs instead of 3, and cooldown every 3 secs instead of 5?

I also think AimQuick on both classes need to have AP penalty reduced to 10...for AP starved classes +20 was always too much.
Last edited by Stinkyweed on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stinkyweed SH.86
Prowl WE.85
Blob Chop.81
Babaganoush Sham.7x
Negative Creep Z.5x
Motley Crue WH.5x

Don't fall asleep...don't fall asleep...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP7uxesyQWo

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#6 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:35 pm

Spoiler:
Zero of the skills you listed make festering arrow easier to use.

Perhaps the ranged KD does - but it gives you room for one arrow per 30 seconds.

Squig kiting allows for a consistent ease of use of festering arrow.
Not discussing SWs - Penril


Let's remember what we are discussing, please.

I am not shutting down the idea - I'm saying that it cannot work in tandem with the kiting skills the squig has. If it is reworked in a way that opting for an elemental bypass gimps kiting, turning the squig into a stationary heavy glass cannon, by all means! Every order player will kiss a dev passionately if it means less ganking and more group oriented squigs.
Last edited by Vandoles on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Thayli
Posts: 134

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#7 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:36 pm

Vandoles wrote:
Spoiler:
Festering arrow is a long cast and requires range. It's tree is the range glass cannon build with which you have limited survivability and options.

A squig has 30% speed bonus and pets that distract the enemy.

If they receive the ability at the same power, the ease of using said ability should also be equalised.

If there is a 100% bypass, SWs should get a 30% speed bonus tactic/ability.

You cannot have both an easy to use AND powerful ability. If you do, the other class should not have a difficult to use and powerful ability. That is completely unfair.

If you want squigs to have more strength against tanks, which is one of the VERY few areas they lack, you should sacrifice something (kiting) to avoid squigs from becoming the best at the most.

I fully agree on path of stabbing changes. The more options for squigs, the less griefers.
I agree that there should be meaningful tradeoffs, no matter the class. But as opposed to putting this in the class vs class basket, I would prefer seeing these tradeoffs in mastery trees, which was their original intent anyways. If I spec Big Shootin', I should be fairly lousy at kiting, but have good nuking options. Vice-versa for Quick Shootin'. Same for Shadow Warrior, you get the idea.

Additionally, I would like to point out that there are many situations where kiting is not a viable option, just as there are many situations where standing still is not an option.
Spoiler:
Also, Shadow Warrior is just flat out better at single target nuke. Ranged KD + 100% bypass Festering arrow has no counterplay, mind you. A squig is not half as useful as that.
Not discussing SWs - Penril
Thayli - SH
Thlayli - SQ


[Phalanx]

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#8 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:40 pm

So we agree on the philosophy. But my specific point is also the 30% speed bonus. A scout SW, once engaged, has a near impossible chance to disengage and go spam festering arrow.

The 30% speed buff cannot coexist with difficult to cast high damage single target nuke, that becomes easy to use with said speed buff.
Last edited by Vandoles on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ads
Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#9 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:42 pm

The next one who says "but Shadow Warriors..." is getting a warning. Stick to discussing the following:

- Poison Arrer: Is it good? Bad? Does it need a buff/nerf?
- Behind Ya!: Is it good? Bad? Does it need a buff/nerf?

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

Post#10 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:45 pm

Penril, I'm merely saying how the suggestion (a bypass of resistances single target nuke) is balanced - by making it difficult to use. On a squig, unless they lose the speed bonus or other strong kiting skills, a bypassing resistances single target nuke is overpowered due to also being easy to use.

The comparison I used was to ease the understanding of my point. I'm sorry if it triggered an off-topic discussion.

But my point on a single target nuke bypassing resistances AND a 30% speed buff being too strong together remains.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests