Squig Herder - I Feelz Yer pain(tactic), Behind Ya!(skill)

[Telen]

I find the actual model of the SH is a massive advantage in itself. You just dont get spotted as much as a SW. The damage is good. Its a better kiter. I dont see why it needs the SW nuke unless SW is going to get run away and a spec proc. I find SH to be the most beginner friendly class I dont think it needs any balancing.

[Thayli]

So we agree on the philosophy. But my specific point is also the 30% speed bonus. A scout SW, once engaged, has a near impossible chance to disengage and go spam festering arrow.

The 30% speed buff cannot coexist with difficult to cast high damage single target nuke, that becomes easy to use with said speed buff.

I disagree. If you somehow, between all the CC that gets thrown around, can run and kite yourself out of a lethal situation, despite not having a kite build, there isn't a single point where you have the opportunity to suddenly stand still and begin a 3s cast. From what I've seen, most people do not even use it in Big Shootin' specs, nor will that tactic save you when a WL gets in your face. Sticky Squigs and detaunt does.

I'm interested in seeing what other people think, but to me, that tactic and a Big Shootin' build are pretty much mutually exclusive.

[Vandoles]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 30% speed bonus tactic is racial? Paired with core ability (whirling pin, dunno how the SH one is called)?

[Stinkyweed]

My apologies, keeping it Herder:

Poison Arrer is meant to be used as turret style play, aligning with the BS tree. Due to the duration of the cast, it limits kiting. I would probably run horned squig for the added range, especially now that horned has more BS->STR conversion. You could argue spikey if the enemy is soft, or gas if they are aggressive, or frank for the KD...but if I was dedicating myself to turret play, I would forgoe the squig all together and run All By Myself for added damage. I used a PA build often on live during keep sieges and defenses...places where my squig would blow up and I was safely at a distance to be a turret.
Dedicating yourself to a turret build with the class should have a risk vs reward payoff. The biggest payoff is some type of elemental bypass. Perhaps not the absolute value of the mirror, but perhaps a step percentage for testing.

An outside the box apprach would be to lower the damage value (perhaps to plink level ), make it a 10 sec cooldown, and make it an instant cast ability for the SH to fit into the herder "skirmish" style of play.

[Stinkyweed]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 30% speed bonus tactic is racial? Paired with core ability (whirling pin, dunno how the SH one is called)?

Correct,the RunAway tactic is a racial tactic
However like any tactic it needs to fit in the build...and the 4 spaces you have available. I probably wouldn't run RunAway! tactic (speed boost on being hit) with a turret build. The RunAway! ability needs to be trained in the QS line, it needs a pet out to work, and probably most wouldn't slot it for turret play (because they would need other things in the BS line, and QS line like heal debuff and Shooting With the Wind to make it viable.

[bloodi]

I agree on the point that you cannot ask for a mirror of a SW ability as long as you still have a pet, so here is a suggestion, tie it to All By Meself.

You want to copy SW festering turret play? Then you lose the pet. Instead of tweaking I feelz yet pain, tweak All by meself.

[Thayli]

I find the actual model of the SH is a massive advantage in itself. You just dont get spotted as much as a SW. The damage is good. Its a better kiter. I dont see why it needs the SW nuke unless SW is going to get run away and a spec proc. I find SH to be the most beginner friendly class I dont think it needs any balancing.

It's not so much about buffing an already decently performing class, but opening options and playstyles. Both of the skills suggested for change in the OP are quite high in the tree and almost mutually exclusive. Wouldn't you like it when every mastery tree is equally viable for every class? I for one seriously dislike it when ability A is better or worse than ability B in every situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 30% speed bonus tactic is racial? Paired with core ability (whirling pin, dunno how the SH one is called)?

Yes, the two goblin racial tactics that both SQ and SH have:
RUN AWAY! - Which is the 30% movement speed increase on a 25% chance on being hit
Whazat Behind You?! - Which is the 25% chance to detaunt for 75% less damage for 5s on being hit

Anyways, back on topic. Like I mentioned earlier, I do not think bringing Poison Arrer in line with the SW counterpart will severely buff SH, it will just make the turret playstyle even. The question remains on how to achieve it without simply mirroring the damn tactic.

As for Behind Ya!, I would prefer if that had something unique to bring to the table, instead of being yet another "add to rotation for extra damage".

[Vandoles]

If the tactic is available to a big shooting build, nothing is preventing a squig from running a turret build together with kiting which is too much.

You can run the + bal tactic, bypass armour and run away to make yourself a highly mobile turret with good enough damage already and also have a free tactic slot to slot the detaunt tactic and become a highly mobile turret that is also tough.

[peterthepan3]

The ability is relatively weak, and I feel that if it is intended to be a nuke - as is the SW variant - it should function as a nuke, given its cast time.

However: I would suggest making the ability the 13pt ability (same with the SW variant, but that isn't to be discussed here) if such a tactic were to be implemented. If you want a very powerful nuke, then you should have to give up a lot for it, e.g. mobility, survivability, utility, and it would be on par with the engi/magus versions (balance across the classes). It's somewhat encroaching on the territory of the Magus/Engi, i.e. the stationary caster with bolt/snipe, but variety is a good thing and provided they don't excel the stationary DPS at being a stationary DPS then it's cool.

Also - if you were to go for this ability, you'd have to slot a tactic to make it effective and, thus, would lose one of your mobility/survivability tactics as the Ballistics/Ball + WS/Resist bypass tactics would be mandatory endgame.

tldr - i think it would be a good idea provided RA becomes 13pt ability.

[Stinkyweed]

Vandoles, you are focusing on a racial tactic that MAY proc when you get hit. You act as if it's the greatest escape tool ever invented in this game. If your turret style build's survivability is based solely on that tactic, you will die many horrible and wretched deaths. Between multiple rKDs, pounces, and pull, your life depends on positioning and teamwork...not a speed tactic that may proc if you are hit.
That tactic works well in a skirmish build, when combine all your mobility tools together and sacrifice burst