tank KB cd proportional to the duration.

[7rere7]

Yes punt gives immunities but a spammable 5 cd punt maybe to overwhelming on multiple targets in some circumstances of gameplay . Maybe that wont be realized until implemented.


If BG/IB get a super punt,super immunities should be applied specifically for it. SP is to powerful for that many tanks to have.

My mistake on the knockdown. Maybe that's what IB/BG need, a "super knock down" instead of a super punt.

IB/BG having heal debuff their single target damage is more effective then SM/BO.

[TenTonHammer]

Yes punt gives immunities but a spammable 5 cd punt maybe to overwhelming on multiple targets in some circumstances of gameplay . Maybe that wont be realized until implemented.

Have you seen KOTBS/CH's punts without the tactic? Extreamly mediocre, its a minor inconvenice at best seondly you are theorizing by stating "maybe" it will be overpowered if it has a 5s CD

If BG/IB get a super punt,super immunities should be applied specifically for it. SP is to powerful for that many tanks to have.

How many tanks have SP? IB/BG and CH/KOTBS the former of whom are not viable in 6 parties and the latter of whomare overpowered/overtuned tanks by nerfing the tactic to make it less good it will bring down the power of the latter 2 tanks and make the superpunt tactics not as viable to run making other tactic viable choices.

My mistake on the knockdown. Maybe that's what IB/BG need, a "super knock down" instead of a super punt.

IB/BG having heal debuff their single target damage is more effective then SM/BO.

Oh really? An out going heal debuff on a tank that needs to go chasing after healers (all the while being out of guard range and dealing with kiting healers and enemy snares), to apply it is better than what SM/BO bring to the table? Then tell me why pretty much every competative 6 man these days is running SM and BO's as their second tanks?

Also no their ST dmg is not as great, SM and BO hit so hard its almost like having another DPS

[7rere7]

Yes sir , I just tested the "extremely mediocre punt " as you put ,is in my unbiased opinion ,effectively far enough. Put it on a 5 cd and tanks wont need to spec the super punt tactic in certain cases .

Theorizing based on tons of game play. Not a boast ,but a good hunch feeling Is all , I could be wrong ,idc .
I think most of us at some point have had theorized opinions on here.
Maybe most on this topic play a tank and desire to have a better punt which is natural. The punt theory maybe tad bit biased then balanced in my humble opinion.

Nerfing punt tactic for small increase cd? Proper use of sp on target enemy = 1 player out of the battle equation . That's not big enough nerf.
GIve four tanks sp ,I doubt that's going to go well against 12 vs 12 in a SC . Another poster mentioned earlier that it seems this punt change favors 6man , maybe so. SP wont effect a 6 man nearly as much since its group coordinated and tanks will call out guarding. Again another post said it before.

If tanks are not after healers ,including their guarded target ,regardless of cc ,well shrug shoulders.
Are you saying the heal debuff for IB/BG is not for concentrated dps spec?

More so for BO's stat steal and aoe snare . BO was about dps then why most BO in pres use shield?
I wouldn't count skull thumper as burst damage or another dps.
SM have spirit damage ,spirit resistance debuff ,high parry that blocks guard damage. SM defiantly for dps.

I think all tanks are nearly equal for premades but those that have to win believe IB/BG dont qualify.

[Luuca]

Even if core punt is weak I think players would just focus using a 5 cd core punt rather then using other useful attack abilities against multiple enemy targets.
Several tanks spamming core punt in gameplay ,that might get rather sloppy in RVR ,for sure in SC's.
The core punt might be more useful then super punt when its all said and done.

I think its bad for IB/BG given optional super punt . Chosens/Kotbs should now get super knockdown like the IB/BG ?
Should Chosen/kotbs single target damage be on par with IB/BG ,or Sm/BO ? I don't think so.

Increase range aoe punt tactic for SM /BO might be a cool though.

I'd settle for the Original Quake, 4 second knockdown did not break on damage. With Rangehammer in full effect, it sure would help.

[Tesq]

ye the proposal would also make the ib KB 15 sec, Because sy but a super punt with 10 sec kd is dumb no matter on which class is it, that is a problem of external balance not internal like is make all super punt be equal. The grudge is irrelevant even more on an IB than what is the hate on the BG since the IB dosen't have the consume of the bg and the lenght dosen't scale with the KB, moreover there is no problem to have 0 grudge or 100 on the durability of IB like instead BG have; what you need like 30 grudge? (p.s only 25...)

additional to this point, no the chosen/kobs punt is not the same of the IB it's better because it let the enemy stay more up in the air, which mean no aoe cc/challenge /htl on ground target etc
So linked to this proposal even the punt in axess X and Y should be made equal for every tank. The time in the air should be the same what change should be the lengh only.
So even with the same CD of course the KOBS is prefered to IB, also the situation on orderside is slight different from destru side, where the BO can fully take the place of one chosen and a bg as scond tank would be possible if mastery disposition would had been better.

[th3gatekeeper]

@th3gatekeeper - great point about NA Ping and server side checks on Punt. I hadn't even considered this as a cause. I just assumed my punt will not work as I need it to. I still use the basic punt and slot Hastened Dismissal in Tor Anroc, but hardly ever in other SCs or ORvR.

Yeah... sadly this makes any anti-guard "strategies" out of my capabilities... Same here, I slot on Tor Anroc but almost never any other time. Not that I dont WANT to, but that its not reliable enough.

In a perfect world, there would be a client side check on the direction of the punt, with a server side check on the distance of activation for the skill.

So even if on the server I were infront of him, but on my screen I am behind him, it checks distance first and then allows me to use it, then uses it from the client side to knock the player "forwards" into my allies, rather than backwards into his own team.

Ofcourse the person BEING punted would say this isnt fair since he cant tell where I am.... Which is why in the end, I am NOT a fan of the current guard mechanic as well as the current anti-guard mechanic. IMO they are both antiquated gaming mechanics that if a new game was developed today, these would not be how they are.

But back on point, Im fine with the proposal here, but am more a fan of buffs, rather than nerfs. Id rather see BG/IB's KB get a BUFF to 10 sec CD to match Chosen/Knights when slotted, than the other way around.

Just IMO.

[peterthepan3]

More so for BO's stat steal and aoe snare . BO was about dps then why most BO in pres use shield?
I wouldn't count skull thumper as burst damage or another dps.
SM have spirit damage ,spirit resistance debuff ,high parry that blocks guard damage. SM defiantly for dps.

I think all tanks are nearly equal for premades but those that have to win believe IB/BG dont qualify.

They use snb as you maintain 80-90% of the dmg a 2h has, while having access to block morale gain tactic and getting 30%+ block. No need to go 2h, and BO can't get insane levels of parry/wods. Using snb doesn't = defensive tank.

Also a bo assisting off a marauder does more burst than a SM on prio targets. SM has better sustained via spirit dots, however, and can deal equal dmg to all opponents. They're very much equals.

[Tesq]

Even if core punt is weak I think players would just focus using a 5 cd core punt rather then using other useful attack abilities against multiple enemy targets.
Several tanks spamming core punt in gameplay ,that might get rather sloppy in RVR ,for sure in SC's.
The core punt might be more useful then super punt when its all said and done.

and give free immunities for the super punt? i hope so! the core punt will mostly be used as def purpose/interrupt, still can be parry, dosen't really remove guard for just 1 sec give the same immunity.

[Eathisword]

ye the proposal would also make the ib KB 15 sec, Because sy but a super punt with 10 sec kd is dumb no matter on which class is it, that is a problem of external balance not internal like is make all super punt be equal. The grudge is irrelevant even more on an IB than what is the hate on the BG since the IB dosen't have the consume of the bg and the lenght dosen't scale with the KB, moreover there is no problem to have 0 grudge or 100 on the durability of IB like instead BG have; what you need like 30 grudge? (p.s only 25...)

IB doesn't have a superpunt... that's the point. It goes less far and less high than BG, knight and chosen. So it's a punt, but by all the definitions of the word, it's not super at all, as super means : very very good, excellent. When you rank 4th out of 5, you are not excellent.

Now please... I wont derail to explain in length what IB use grudges for... but let's say that it is needed for everything good IB can do, except armor buff and strength buff. We need grudge for parry, crit, toughness, absorb, weaponskill buffs, then some more for punt, armor debuff, KD and AoE snare.

And please read. I said exactly the same thing you are saying : during a fight IB has no trouble getting a punt. The downside is ''when a fight starts''. You lose the ability to gain tactical advantage because at 0 grudge, AT THE BEGINING OF A FIGHT, you cant punt your enemy tanks but they can punt you (except BG). Yes, it is only for 3-5s, but in a 6v6 or a scenario those 3-5s are sometimes very important (the bridge in Nordenwatch and Tor Anroc comes to mind). So, it is irrelevant in the middle of a fight. But it is very relevant at the start of it.

additional to this point, no the chosen/kobs punt is not the same of the IB it's better because it let the enemy stay more up in the air, which mean no aoe cc/challenge /htl on ground target etc
So linked to this proposal even the punt in axess X and Y should be made equal for every tank. The time in the air should be the same what change should be the lengh only.
So even with the same CD of course the KOBS is prefered to IB, also the situation on orderside is slight different from destru side, where the BO can fully take the place of one chosen and a bg as scond tank would be possible if mastery disposition would had been better.

I agree here. Increasing IB's CD on punt if punt gets buffed is perfectly normal. If that's what you propose, then it is great. If punt remains subpar as it is now and gets an increased CD, then it is a nerf to arguably the weakest order tank.

In any case, BG should have the punt CD decreased to 15s, if not to 10s.

[Tesq]

the Ib punt is rather a long punt where the bg can reach a very long,

i refer to all kobs/chosen tactic and core IB/BG punt as all being "super" because they are all in a category which remove for a not short period of time the tank.

Btw that's exatly why i also add to fix the lengh and the time in air to be more equals and proportional for short,medium, long, very long KB, so that across all the tank some dosen't have a better punt because they make ppl stay more in the air.