[Mara] Deadly Clutch

[TenTonHammer]

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u forgot in the mix bo has the highest chance to be criticed in game(even superior to own mara ) the problem still as bo u need a shield and a mdps or partner to achieve something with morale pumper.

futile strikes renders base chance to be crit meaning less


your trying to make it sound like using SnB is a downside?

In pretty much every tank class bar SM atm SnB is 100% superior to 2H

[theoddone]

Thought I would share my opinion.

Deadly clutch
I think this is fine as it is. Its high up in the tree and the ability requires a specific mutation. I think it is a good trade-off between either using the tactic for utility, or a different tactic for more dps.
As for the secondary effect. In most settings it is not that good because targets die to fast or you die too fast to really benefit from the leech healing. It shines best in 6v6 where targets live long enough for you to leech heal anything.

Cutting claw
This ability is too important for dps and group viability, any changes to it would have an immense impact on the class. Have seen people argue that the value is too high in relation to current armor values. That on live it worked because you had access to better gear. However, you also had access to way more weapon skill on live to bypass those high armor values. If I remember correctly CC has had the same values ever since it was changed from 75%.

Thunderous blow
I was a bit confused about the last nerf because it hit our dps most and not the debuff part. However, I can understand why it was nerfed. It is very strong, especially in regards to where it is in the tree, but on the other hand moving it up in the tree would not change much. Could revert the WoM and TB swap that was done on live, but it would not fit with the roles of the trees.
Changing the duration to 10sec and having it on 5sec cd would be the best option IMO.
Another change could be to make it like tainted claw, that the duration increases if the target is ailing. Or take it even further, that the target has to be ailing for the debuff to go on. Then it would no longer work in the same way as an opener.

In regards to group viability, I think its worth mentioning that the class used to bring a reliable TE to the table. That is no longer the case.

Another issue for me is the efficiency of the class in different settings. The marauder can be absolutely fantastic in small scale, and borderline op when TE and ME works. However, in large scale when it gets zergy is not that fun to play, and its so high maintenance. Probably more of a MDPS issue in general. The current dmg levels and hp pools make it quite unforgiving to be on the front lines in big fights.

P.S
A nice quality of life change would be to increase the time window when mutated energy is available after a disrupt, atm its very short.

[TenTonHammer]

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... :5194:5204:

mara has decent role in WB play with AoE monstro build

dont know why people are saying the class sint good in that situation

[Toldavf]

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... :5194:5204:

mara has decent role in WB play with AoE monstro build

dont know why people are saying the class sint good in that situation

I think basically what he is trying to outline is that mara bombing is all point blank and rightfully so we are melee after all. However it isnt always desirable to be near the enemy zerg. As melee go mara is possible 2nd or 3rd best melee bomber in terms of dps.

[GodlessCrom]

your trying to make it sound like using SnB is a downside?

In pretty much every tank class bar SM atm SnB is 100% superior to 2H

Hey! 2h IB is clearly the superior IB (I wish)

Also I was saying that mara is one of the most viable mdps for playing as a group or solo queing/pugging, which it is compared because it is more viable solo than choppa, and more desirable in a group than witch. I phrased it poorly, sorry.

[theoddone]

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... :5194:5204:

mara has decent role in WB play with AoE monstro build

dont know why people are saying the class sint good in that situation

I think basically what he is trying to outline is that mara bombing is all point blank and rightfully so we are melee after all. However it isnt always desirable to be near the enemy zerg. As melee go mara is possible 2nd or 3rd best melee bomber in terms of dps.

Well, kind of ish. In primetime when a zone have 5wb's amount of people on each side, there are the zerg stand-off fights which usually goes back and forth between point A and B. And the keep fights ofc... In those situations its difficult to engage as a melee wheter you are single target or AoE speced. The amount of babysitting a mdps then needs to be able to do anything is quite high compered to a rdps. Is it then justified to bring a mdps over a rdps in a roaming party for ORvR? I think currently the rdps brings so much more to the table in those situations. But atleast marauder compered to other mdps can go "fishing" in those situations with TE, and M1 root so rdps can kill...

Sorry, I know its offtopic, but its somewhat related, and I wanted to explain what I meant by class efficiency in different situations.

[CptSmeea]

Why do i feel like this arguement is about trowing sh*t so far and not solving anything? oh well.

-The mara is mainly a debuffing mdps , or more precisely most of us using it like that. Monstro mara still nonexisting, and Brutal basicly can be discribe anything but "brutal" it is basicly just a "here are some nice thing that the other two specs can use nicely.

-Allright becouse it is mosrtly about the Sav spec ... look: whem mdps sticks to a target and stack debuffs , you have time to react, switch guard / detaunt / hurl some heals that way it is rly far from an uncounterable class.

-The CC being op sounds stupid to me.. just think about it, the WL have almost 100% same ability just becouse they usually get that ability and then left the tree at that point dosn't mean the CC become op. Whit 2-4 point more in it you get about ~100-200 more armor debuff if i recall currectly.
(addednote: armor debuff is a bread and butterskill for any mdps who have one therefore i feel like the undefendable part is kinda justified)

-The TB already got a 100% CD increase . It is not a mutation MUST ability, that means you don't get the 50% armor bypass from the Piercing bite tactic, so i don't see how you can hit 500 dmg to anyone that is not in a robe, and im sure that all of us who play mdps EXPECTING to hit like a bloody truck to a robe wearer. Now about the wound debuff... uhm i fail to see how it is any better/worse then the Slayer ability Devastate. it is a problem that the next tier of armour propably going to solve by adding more stat to all the classes.

-Deadly Clutch, well i don't get it why it needs a reworks if i "pay" a tactic for a relatively low dmg ability for that to do its healing debuff job and a little extra survivability it seems a good trade, in my book. I can be wrong here ,butall mdps have a 50% heal debuff so it is kinda what are we there for i guess, ensure/take kills.

[GodlessCrom]

No Slayer specs 2h because it is 100% worse than dual wield, and so you never see them using devastate.

I agree with Theo on the points he made. I still think mara debuffs outshine BG debuffs and that is to the detriment of BG. What about buffing BG armor debuff at max hate so that it debuffs armor by the same amount as mara? Could mirror this on IB, though IB is in better position than Bg imo.

[Arteker616]

Spoiler:

No Slayer specs 2h because it is 100% worse than dual wield, and so you never see them using devastate.

I agree with Theo on the points he made. I still think mara debuffs outshine BG debuffs and that is to the detriment of BG. What about buffing BG armor debuff at max hate so that it debuffs armor by the same amount as mara? Could mirror this on IB, though IB is in better position than Bg imo.

im sorry but there is quite a few slayer running 2hs , the 2hs is prety valid and even superior to the choppa one , the problem is or was skavenslayer is insane op compared to other specs and stronger than own choppa one. so people play the most op variant but it not dismish the fact 2hs slayer can do the work just fine

Not discussing Slayers - Penril

[GodlessCrom]

Spoiler:

Im calling bullshit on that. There are barely any 2h slayer in the game. I have seen 2 ever in tier 4 and there is no denying the spec is much squishier and worse than dual wield. And the point remains there are far fewer 2h slayer than there are sav/brut maras.

Not discussing Slayers - Penril