[Rejected] [Engineer] Cannon Smash

[Penril]

In this particular case, yes: I can debunk you. Simply because you mentioned some kind of "formula" for how morales work, and I mentioned one (amongst MANY) that don't follow your formula AT ALL.

Morales following a set formula is a debunked argument.

However I haven't debunked any of your other points because I agree with you that someone else should moderate now that I got Involved. So let's put it this way:

You say something that is 100% wrong and there is obvious evidence contradicting you? I can debunk it.
You say something that I disagree with but can't 100% prove? Someone else will moderate it.

[peterthepan3]

It's been proven that Cannon Smash doesn't actually benefit from the range buff. If that's the case, nothing to see here tbh. A needed morale (especially with M2 being brought down a bit to compensate the dmg buff) for a class that will have severe problems with taking out targets as soon as stronger gear comes in...

[Azarael]

as soon as stronger gear comes in...

We will not allow this to become a problem here.

[dur3al]

I'd just like to mention something, CS is the same as it was before the changes on engineer (they never benefited from the range buff), nobody cared or mentioned it before as being an issue, so why is it now?

[Sigimund]

Nobody has worried about engineers before. Now people are dying in situations where they wouldn't have died before and are looking for anything they can to nerf.

My impression is that Magi are just about getting away with it due to rarity.

Edit: I am not arguing that an ability cannot be overpowered if it is on a class that was previously underpowered but people blatantly making things up about ranged buff interactions etc makes me cynical.

[StormX2]

Nobody has worried about engineers before. Now people are dying in situations where they wouldn't have died before and are looking for anything they can to nerf.

My impression is that Magi are just about getting away with it due to rarity.

Not really though, Magus are less popular but the two classes are pretty different in the long run.

[Glorian]

Nobody has worried about engineers before. Now people are dying in situations where they wouldn't have died before and are looking for anything they can to nerf.

My impression is that Magi are just about getting away with it due to rarity.

Edit: I am not arguing that an ability cannot be overpowered if it is on a class that was previously underpowered but people blatantly making things up about ranged buff interactions etc makes me cynical.

I also don't get it while there is a discussion about CS.
CS doesn't benefit from range buff and doesn't benefit from recent damage buff. It is still like it was on Live and Engie wasn't there OP. Bevore High lvl gear and after it.

If I understand it correctly. The Engie was and is still not a top class. But everytime he gets a buff there is a nerf to the buff afterwards. Like you are climbing a peak and making two steps forward and then one step backwards because there is some standing on top and sees the engi comming up.

CS is a very powerfull m3 Moral. Most Engie m4s are crap. So question is:

Does Engie need a nerf?

[peterthepan3]

as soon as stronger gear comes in...

We will not allow this to become a problem here.

Nice to hear!

[Akalukz]

CS damage and Secondary duration is above almost all other M3. Which means it should be brought in line. I would like to know what the balance mods think. Do they feel it is fine as is? If so, what is the thought behind it.

Lets take a look at the RDPS M3

Sorc / BW / Magus = Scintillating Energy 1200 damage / 9 sec stagger - Single target
Shadow Warrior - Instill Fear = 1200 AoE damage and 6 sec stagger
Engineer - Cannon Smash = 2400 damage and 30 sec 1400 armor debuff
Squig - Squig Beast - Triples pet damage and increase thier size (lol) for 15 sec

You can easily see how this M3 (cannon smash) is head and shoulders above the rest, even the Shadow Warrior Instill fear is above the rest.

Damage should be brought down to 1200, to be inline with all other single target M3 RDPS morale. Something should also be down about the 1400 Armour debuff, shorten the lenght to and equivalent 9 secs

EDIT: If i am using old date tooltips. please point me to the correct place for information.

[porkstar]

In this particular case, yes: I can debunk you. Simply because you mentioned some kind of "formula" for how morales work, and I mentioned one (amongst MANY) that don't follow your formula AT ALL.

Morales following a set formula is a debunked argument.

I agree. I like how Tesq is thinking but from a logical standpoint if you are trying to make a valid assertion with an arbitrary formula that not anyone has discussed or agreed upon, your argument basically invalidates itself even if it is true. I think we'd have to assign a value to every single ability in the game (even an engie copter would produce a slight negative value because it is more difficult to ambush with), agree upon designated values, and insert the whole mess into a Turing Machine, let the wheels spin around, and then analyze the results. I did it in my head quickly: Order avg value 4973.17 Destro avg value 4882.57. Order is better.