[Pending Final Review] [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

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Tesq
Posts: 3102

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#121 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:49 am

@all, then if you really want force to exclude a heal debuff from a class that luck burst and keep around the debuff /dot style then you give it burst; i suggest a 4 tick dot with big hits (burn lies away for exemple).
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Tifereth
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Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#122 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:43 pm

Simply increasing dot damage for dot specs has been asked for multiple times already. It will need delicate balancing, but might be another decent option to fix it imo. At the moment, both magus and engineer aoe dots do laughable damage. Engineer has it even worse in the sense that one dot deals physical, i.e. being a waste even among dots that are mostly there to soak up cleanses. Khaine's Withdrawal Morale 2 just adds insult to injury. Call it Bitterstone bias if you must, but one skill cleansing the whole group of ALL dots/debuffs is "very very balanced", especially when it can be cycled easily. :P Double DoK is mandatory in many if not most comps, and speccing CW on top gives a lot of possiblities to render dots mostly useless.

The new change for grenade turret/flamer (increasing the dot tick interval) was a good step in the right direction, but bad dots ticking faster is only a half way fix.
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Grunbag
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Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#123 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:50 pm

I agree , what aoe engineer / magus need is more aoe direct damage to counter the cleanse that already can kill they all rotation
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Skori - 40 - 59 Engineer

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catholicism198
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Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#124 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:00 pm

Grunbag wrote:That's why focusing on the explosion part of the ability would make it more usefull and powerful, and would fit better a aoe rotation.

We're not changing the whole ability , we're focusing on the explosion, to give a aoe direct damage to mid tree.

Edit : nitroglycerin grenade was something that belong in grenadier tree in begin of AoR, We're not creating this ability it already exist.


"A grenade attack which covers your target with explosives for 10 seconds. Any time they are hit by a melee or ranged attack, there is a 25% chance that all enemies within 20 feet of them will take damage."

The ability did exist, once upon a time, but it was ultimately removed from the game before it went live...why? Who knowns.
A lot of those abilities were either reworked or given to the Daemons or turrets. Some make sense, others don't. Why did the engineer keep it's melee knockback but not the magus? Convo for a different thread.

Now for the ability in question... the reason why reworking sticky/seed to mirror nitroglycerin grenade is a bad idea is because it'll end up increasing the damage potential gap between the Engineer and the under performing Magus.
...Unlike the Engineer, the Magus doesn't have access to two rapid fire abilities like "Focused Fire" or the gun turret's "Machine Gun..." so it's less likely that it'll proc. Fewer proc chances...less damage...
:o :shock: :D :) :| :( :cry: :x

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Penril
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Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#125 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:22 pm

catholicism198 wrote:
Now for the ability in question... the reason why reworking sticky/seed to mirror nitroglycerin grenade is a bad idea is because it'll end up increasing the damage potential gap between the Engineer and the under performing Magus.
...Unlike the Engineer, the Magus doesn't have access to two rapid fire abilities like "Focused Fire" or the gun turret's "Machine Gun..." so it's less likely that it'll proc. Fewer proc chances...less damage...


You are talking from a solo/pug perspective. If the Magus is in a group, the target will be focused (resulting in as many, if not more, procs as an Engi would get in his own group).

Tankbeardz
Posts: 267

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#126 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:43 pm

Penril wrote:
catholicism198 wrote:
Now for the ability in question... the reason why reworking sticky/seed to mirror nitroglycerin grenade is a bad idea is because it'll end up increasing the damage potential gap between the Engineer and the under performing Magus.
...Unlike the Engineer, the Magus doesn't have access to two rapid fire abilities like "Focused Fire" or the gun turret's "Machine Gun..." so it's less likely that it'll proc. Fewer proc chances...less damage...


You are talking from a solo/pug perspective. If the Magus is in a group, the target will be focused (resulting in as many, if not more, procs as an Engi would get in his own group).


Eh...true and not true. Magus burst takes a lot longer to set up and in ST spec, BoC is necessary. Snipe is fun but it is not really needed in a burst rotation.

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Grunbag
Posts: 557

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#127 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:52 pm

Spoiler:
Tankbeardz wrote:
Penril wrote:
catholicism198 wrote:
Now for the ability in question... the reason why reworking sticky/seed to mirror nitroglycerin grenade is a bad idea is because it'll end up increasing the damage potential gap between the Engineer and the under performing Magus.
...Unlike the Engineer, the Magus doesn't have access to two rapid fire abilities like "Focused Fire" or the gun turret's "Machine Gun..." so it's less likely that it'll proc. Fewer proc chances...less damage...


You are talking from a solo/pug perspective. If the Magus is in a group, the target will be focused (resulting in as many, if not more, procs as an Engi would get in his own group).


Eh...true and not true. Magus burst takes a lot longer to set up and in ST spec, BoC is necessary. Snipe is fun but it is not really needed in a burst rotation.


No one talk about snipe or BoC. Don't know why you're talking about it ?

Using nitro grenade in a group would have same chances to proc for both engineer and magus .
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Karast
Posts: 329

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#128 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:00 pm

Penril wrote:
catholicism198 wrote:
Now for the ability in question... the reason why reworking sticky/seed to mirror nitroglycerin grenade is a bad idea is because it'll end up increasing the damage potential gap between the Engineer and the under performing Magus.
...Unlike the Engineer, the Magus doesn't have access to two rapid fire abilities like "Focused Fire" or the gun turret's "Machine Gun..." so it's less likely that it'll proc. Fewer proc chances...less damage...


You are talking from a solo/pug perspective. If the Magus is in a group, the target will be focused (resulting in as many, if not more, procs as an Engi would get in his own group).


The proc rate and values could also be changed to address this as well,

Another similar idea is to have 1 proc more like a detonate similar to explosive charge from swtor on the sniper / gunslinger. I.E. put sticky bombs / SoC up, then use a snipe / boc to trigger the explosion for some time-able burst.

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Grunbag
Posts: 557

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#129 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:04 pm

Karast wrote:
Penril wrote:
catholicism198 wrote:
Now for the ability in question... the reason why reworking sticky/seed to mirror nitroglycerin grenade is a bad idea is because it'll end up increasing the damage potential gap between the Engineer and the under performing Magus.
...Unlike the Engineer, the Magus doesn't have access to two rapid fire abilities like "Focused Fire" or the gun turret's "Machine Gun..." so it's less likely that it'll proc. Fewer proc chances...less damage...


You are talking from a solo/pug perspective. If the Magus is in a group, the target will be focused (resulting in as many, if not more, procs as an Engi would get in his own group).


The proc rate and values could also be changed to address this as well,

Another similar idea is to have 1 proc more like a detonate similar to explosive charge from swtor on the sniper / gunslinger. I.E. put sticky bombs / SoC up, then use a snipe / boc to trigger the explosion for some time-able burst.


That would mean spec sticky bomb in grenadier tree for sniper in rifleman tree ?
Grunbag - 40 - 27 Squig Herder
Skori - 40 - 59 Engineer

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Karast
Posts: 329

Re: [Engineer - Magus] Sticky bombs / Seed of chaos

Post#130 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:32 pm

Grunbag wrote:
Karast wrote:
Penril wrote:
You are talking from a solo/pug perspective. If the Magus is in a group, the target will be focused (resulting in as many, if not more, procs as an Engi would get in his own group).


The proc rate and values could also be changed to address this as well,

Another similar idea is to have 1 proc more like a detonate similar to explosive charge from swtor on the sniper / gunslinger. I.E. put sticky bombs / SoC up, then use a snipe / boc to trigger the explosion for some time-able burst.


That would mean spec sticky bomb in grenadier tree for sniper in rifleman tree ?


It would work well in all builds. A little burst for middle tree, extra burst for ST, or magnet. The damage being limited by spec points is a limiting factor. High middle tree specs would get better dps out of it.

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