[Rejected] Engineer Vs Magus Autoattack change

[ToXoS]

Try something:
Count the number of armor debuffs on order side.
Now count the number of elemental debuffs on destro side.

That's why engie is still a bit superior to the magus when it comes to ST DPS.
That and of course, the disrupt chance that is still easier to stack than dodge chance.

[BreezeKicker]

Ranged AA on engi doesn't trigger if

• You are moving
• You are casting
• You are channeling

Magus despite having no AA can achieve similar dmg on wider spectrum of targets, while dmg on engi is fluctuating a lot depending on a target.

Engi is a physical rdps = have to deal with armor. Have AA
Magus is a caster = doesn't have to deal with armor. Have no AA

Give AA to magus and they have to deal with the same thing that's listed.

Magus have to deal with Resistance instead of armor

Damage fluctuating a lot depending on targets to for magus.

Engineer can increase their dmg from both Weapon-skill and Ballistic while Magus can only do it from INT

Mit for engi can fluctuate between ~20-75% depending on amount of armor talis stacked, pots, armor types, debuff and the like = ~50% diff between the low and high extremes
Mit for magus is is something about ~20-40% depending widely on gear and presence /absence of Kotbs/CH - buff/debuff AM/SH -res buff RP/Z - res runes/marks = ~20% diff between the low and high extremes


To get decent levels of WS atm you really need to give a lot of other stats like BS, Tou, Wou, Crit etc. Engis do not have that much more stats to allocate than magus [Yes they do have FCH which gives you 120 WS and 120 BS but on Magus you don't need a second stat at ALL, it also cost you 120 tou] so they cannot max out both at the same time. What stats magus doesnt have to dump in WS he can use on def stats

And even Stacking WS to the point of 700+ does little for your dmg coupled with the BS and other stats sacrificed to get that high. While it was Karast that made more thorough testing of WS, I did assist him, as well as did couple of mine own, and saw the results. In theory it sounds great but does not hold in practise.

[Penril]

I am hiting tanks

Stop hitting tanks.

Aza and the other devs have said several times that they won't allow crazy armor values or gear inflation in future sets.

But the point still stands, as people gets anni/merc and starts slotting armor talis, physical will only face higher mitigation values.

And i still dont see how "engier are way better" no one even gave an argument as to why, just stated it and moved on.

If this is something that you are so sure about, i would like some examples of why.

I don't manage Gear sets. I am only repeating what has been mentioned several times by the devs. If gear is/becomes an issue, we should discuss about it in a different thread. Having said that, I believe we can drop that argument and consider it debunked.

On topic: I don't think Magus needs an AA, for the reasons several people have mentioned already. This is my oppinion as a player, which I will gladly defend here (and therefore, I ask someone else to moderate this thread if necessary).

[Ravai]

Magus from my experience requires a lot more setup and "please crit" playstyle than engi, by this I mean planting the rotation when your target is elemental debuffed from pet, ccing properly where needed and selecting the right target in the first place, you can however stamp a better one shot (focused mind, flight times included) burst than engi assuming everything crits. Magus also performs better with the aoe build, dissolving mist + stack ae dots and rolling winds morale is VERY powerful in keep defenses whereas napalm doesnt seem to be scaling as effectively.

Engi is imo easier to play and more effective and forgiving if you dont hit the crits as you have autos to buff up those numbers to very respectable damage consistantly on a target. Armour is not an issue atm, it really isn't if your hitting the right targets, people have low wounds, low armor and its a turkey shoot for engis right now. We will see how this changes when higher tiers of gear are added but as it stands at this moment having played both extensively, engi is still on top but not by a huge distance.

Is magus underpowered and in need of an auto attack?, I dont think so and with the current gear levels it feels about right, but if we are putting it solely next to its counterpart then yes you could say its a peg or two below still.

The only disparity that still seems a little off single target damage wise is the pet, magus pets are basicly there to apply the debuff and supply stacks thats it, they dont really do any helpful damage to what is a burst class (fluff damage they supply means nothing), they dont offer the same damage pressue that a turret can, the range I'll admit would be hard to trade off for extra damage though

tldr - Magus doesnt need an auto attack, possibly look at improving the pet somehow, It is afterall static and now incredibly easy to kill.

[Penril]

Keep in mind there was a pet patch today. I haven't tested it yet, but from the looks of it, Gun Turret should not be hitting nearly as hard as it used to.

[bloodi]

Keep in mind there was a pet patch today. I haven't tested it yet, but from the looks of it, Gun Turret should not be hitting nearly as hard as it used to.

Its autoattack mind you, the abilities are now hitting way harder for both magus and engi.

[Penril]

Keep in mind there was a pet patch today. I haven't tested it yet, but from the looks of it, Gun Turret should not be hitting nearly as hard as it used to.

Its autoattack mind you, the abilities are now hitting way harder for both magus and engi.

Would you say pets are balanced now? This because some people are using the "engi pet >>> magus pet" as an argument for Magus buff.

[bloodi]

Would you say pets are balanced now? This because some people are using the "engi pet >>> magus pet" as an argument for Magus buff.

Quite hard to say, afaik magus has no rapid fire on any of their turrets (thats spiked squig job) to take advantage of procs, i was "buff bitch" for a while for 2 engies and it works wonders.

However one of those engies was yelling "that **** pet hitted me for 900" today on TS so we will have to see.

[Tesq]

It would be better fix other tools that make magus < than engi before propose to give em an auto attack, btw for game core option sake, id say if someone debunk that the magus really need a boost due to AA disaprity then boost all magus pets AA so that we don't have an exeption for the magus only.

[Waaghaa]

I think that somewhere, someplace when Mythic was tinkering the classes that someone, just beacuse they had to, make mirrorclasses, as a last resort, paired Magus and Engi, imo the 2 classes differs as much as a Black orc and a Goblin, the Engi tree is more similar to SH than Magus and the only similiarity between Magus and Engi is the fixed in place "pet".

I dont think that it matter much if Magus or Engi is boosted / nerfed, there will always be a gap between the 2 classes, they dont rely on the same stats.