[DoK/WP] Soul Essence/Righteous Fury regeneration

[Tesq]

I think we should take what we can since not all proposal make throught and if something can be done to solve/soft the problem then is better take the chance considering it's also get open discus and not something done behind the curtain

I alredy opposed enough to option C, i can incline for option B "effect" and not to the applied skll.
Can't really allow my self to considering make that ugly channeling even more important for dok/wp and play it even more as backliner
Bind it to trasfer essence , to essence lash whatever you want but not to the channeling.( Still i prefer essence lash.

The channeling can be ok in all those situation where enemy ST rotation is over and you HAVE a window of time to rec. When you need to spam group heals you can stay 6 sec rec..no other healers have to rec at all for spam group heal.

[bloodi]

Nop my issue here is that smite/lash arn't reliable skills due to high parry. Iam not seeking infinite recources. From what i have test this tactic won't give's you resource when hitted by DoT ticks but only from the initial attack so i still will have to check my RF/SE so no i won't get infinite resources as you said. As for infinitive resource on other classes check AM wild healing and resorative burst combination. It is the only class with practical infinitive resources when using aoe.

No, they are reliable, they even give you flat resource when you use them and hit people, hitting a single extra target with it, its a free aoe heal, only gets better from that point as you hit more targets.

its reliable, its just not foolproof, which is a big difference.

And yeah it may not trigget on dot damage but 25 rf per hit with no ICD is still insanity, in a any warband composition it lets you spam away, with no thought behind it besides slotting a tactic. And mate, comparing yourself to an AM that has to slot 2 tactics for just the ap and its still behind you in aoe healing (1 extra second cast time and he has no aoe HoT) doesnt really help your case.

Ino other healers have to rec at all for spam group heal.

They absolutely do, all of them unless heavily specced for it and thats with group help.

[Tesq]

@bloodi,

1) hit one ppl is not a free heal hit someone give you 15 essence, group heal cost 60 essence

You need to hit 4 ppl in order to do ONE heal

This is 4 on 9 max target so hit 9 target give you just 2 heal more...do you know how many heals shammy/am ap drain allow them to do?

On top of this you can be Parry... And skill have 5 sec CD

2) no they dont they have ap on off hand and 1 tactic and the cost for 1 group heal is a lot lot lesser than dok/wp one for 2x the heal done for of course 2x the cast time (from when the dok/wp group heal was nerfed the value are x for every GCD)

Somekind of tweek is need, cut the troll it isn't fun

[bloodi]

Ugh i forgot they changed it again after they made it 45 RF/SE on activation with no targets, now its just 15 per target, i should have checked ingame instead of the waronlinebuilder/rorcareerbuilder tooltips, there shows it does both.

his is 4 on 9 max target so hit 9 target give you just 2 heal more...do you know how many heals shammy/am ap drain allow them to do?

2? The aoe heal is 65 ap, the drain ix max 180 over 9 secs, thats if the target has ap, doesnt get cleansed or doesnt disrupt it right away, you can have 9 targets to do a parry check every 5 seconds, if any of them doesnt parry it, is 15 resource, each, if the target of the drain disrupts, is 10 seconds of nothing at all.

That besides the fact that RF/SE is by itself, much better than ap, for one, it regens while you cast, unlike AP.

And they dont heal for 2x times the value, i dont even know where you got this from and then you tell me to stop trolling?

[Penril]

Let's stop with the trolling accusations. I decide who is trolling and who is not.

[Tesq]

Ugh i forgot they changed it again after they made it 45 RF/SE on activation with no targets, now its just 15 per target, i should have checked ingame instead of the waronlinebuilder/rorcareerbuilder tooltips, there shows it does both.

his is 4 on 9 max target so hit 9 target give you just 2 heal more...do you know how many heals shammy/am ap drain allow them to do?

2? The aoe heal is 65 ap, the drain ix max 180 over 9 secs, thats if the target has ap, doesnt get cleansed or doesnt disrupt it right away, you can have 9 targets to do a parry check every 5 seconds, if any of them doesnt parry it, is 15 resource, each, if the target of the drain disrupts, is 10 seconds of nothing at all.

That besides the fact that RF/SE is by itself, much better than ap, for one, it regens while you cast, unlike AP.

And they dont heal for 2x times the value, i dont even know where you got this from and then you tell me to stop trolling?

my AM cast 2.5 sec crit 2k heals(rr40) my dok cast 1 sec cri heal 1k (rr56) thats where i get the info

furthermore

2,5 sec group heals cost 65 ap; which mean every gcd of heal is 32,2 ap vs 60 essence of dok/wp

this is 2x the value in ap for 2x the value in heal output; dok/wp use the same value of a 2,5 sec cast heal instead for 1 sec of course it's teh double man.

2,5 sec cast are 2 GCD more or less / you pay 32,5 x GCD /crit output 1.8-2k (with meccanic up )
1 sec cast is mroe or less 1 GCD / you pay 60 for 1 GCD /crit output 800-1k

values change with gear but still my am double the group heal of any dok/wp with same rr jsut tested now ...

also there is no difference in regen as after you cast the group heals ap istantl regen.

[bloodi]

So you are getting 800 crits on a DoK whose base value for group is 600 (a crit is 1.5)?

Furthermore, when the mechanic is up for your group heal in AM is healing for 1.8k even though the mechanic doesnt increase the value, just reduces the cast time?

I may be inclined to not believe you man, for some reason. Will need someone to back you up. Are you sure you are not making the numbers a bit more on your side to make a point that doesnt exist?

Tha besides the fact that healing twice for the same values as 1 heal is just flat out better. Nevermind the existence of the group hot, the group shield or the group cleanse.

And of course there is difference, RF never stops regening, ever, ap does.

[vouzou]

Guys we are not discussing the difference between healing classes. If you think that your charachter performs fine in massive oRvR enviroment then make no comment. If you think it isn't and you need a little more resources to heal then comment. From my point of view DoK from beginning was not a balance class and thats why i made this proposal. At least for my game style i could use a tactic that gives me more resources. If you believe that isn't worling for you but option B is better vote for that. If nothing is good for you no need to vote.
If option C comes for testing then simplu don't use it.

Thanks

[Tesq]

@bloodi is trying to debunk the need of "any change" at all so thats why we are discussion this point

dok/wp group heal is 446 with full point invested in left mastery add let's say you have 700 willpower and rr 50

my tooltips say 644 of group heal, crit increase heal of 50% (not 100% i mistakef that once too) so is 1007 crited group heal (EDITED i forgot use potion to reach 680 willp so i edited now) which is inside my value of the upper post between 800 and 1k (gear dependancy) so no, it's not 1500, the values are what i talked about.

So i repeat dok/wp pay 60 essences for what he should pay 30 or 35.... so as per thread proposal, yes a essence tweek is needed.

[Sulorie]

With 700 willpower and max heal path you crit grp heal for 960-1080.

Ap drain and essence lash are similar. The first gives nothing, when cleansed or disrupted for 10 sec and gives enough resources for 2 aoe heals. The only advantage is the range.

Dok or WP earn the same value of resources to cast 2 aoe heals, when they hit 8/9 targets successfully. Parry can happen or they hit only a few, due to range. Furthermore they have to be at frontline. On the plus side is the lower cooldown on 5 sec.
Additionally they have a channel regen skill, which is discussed here.

Dok/WP heal half as much, when you calculated how much they can heal with 250 resources, this is true. I think albeit this is a valid statement, it lacks perspective on the whole picture.
Half cast time for half heal value opens options on what you do during the gcd you don't stand still to cast like other healers. You can do more actions in the same time frame, when others are immobile.
When you halve resource costs, then you give them a significant advantage over other healers, because you then choose between either full heal or half heal + mobility.

@vouzou: People who think those suggestions are not good or appropriate shouldn't be allowed to argue against it?