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[SM] Heaven's Blade

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dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#21 » Wed May 16, 2018 12:53 pm

Darosh wrote: Wed May 16, 2018 10:48 am
Spoiler:
Generally speaking:

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to standardize the enchantments in terms of trigger, ICDs, proc-chance, fade-off/lingering and scaling (masteries, or else), etc. before tackling tooltip contents ~ to create a proper foundation to build upon (considering enchantments are a big part of the SM class mechanics)?

I dunno how workable it is, but I'd still like to toss it into mix, thinking outside the box-ish:
Tying enchantments into the stances somehow to allow for a (mechanically) reasonable limitation (e.g.: uptime, rotation vs gameflow,...).

It'd add to the skill ceiling, naturally limit the potency of whatever solution is being fancied (i.e.: introduce RNG based on gameflow) and recyle/re-emphasize old mechanics.

To put it into perspective:
Every solution proposed so far could (slightly tweaked) be added to HB and made to require a certain stance without breaking much (no plain increase in anything useful unless the player knows what he does stance wise, I'd imagine ~ I'd personally probably have to consider such a change a nerf as I can't even get stock SM stances work, lol).

Enchantments as such could make for additional toolkits, more potent on paper than actual stances (SW/Mara) given second-instance proc and stance requirement ~ three enchantments, three procs per enchantment, each proc tied to a specific stance; 9 procs in total. Probably a bit utopian of a system...
You're kinda out in left field here. If a revamp of the blade enchants happens it's likely to be outside of a balance discussion; I think we should bring it back closer to the proposal
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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#22 » Wed May 16, 2018 2:56 pm

Harkonen wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 3:22 pm 25% chance on hitting target to proc +5% speed increase to group members with an additional 1% per point spent in Hoeth.
5 second duration with a 10 second internal cooldown.

No damage proc, no damage increase for SM, utility improvement.
The mastery points work on increasing the ranks of the abilities in the tree. So it doesn't quite work to have the base at 5% and increase based on points spent. So we start with a base at level 1 and choose when to add % speed increases. Now we do have the benefit in balancing this on the low end, because swordmaster's do not get heaven's blade at level 25. (Which would put the ability at rank 15 or so without points in hoeth, going to rank 25 at career rank 40)

So solution 3 25% chance on hit to increase movement speed of party members by 1/2 rank% within 100ft for 5s.

Puts it at 7% at rank 15, 12% at rank 25, 20% at rank 40 (15pt hoeth). That's using your 20% movement end result as a base.

I don't know that it needs an ICD if you make it to where it cannot refresh itself.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#23 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:24 pm

heaven's light bursts from your sword, it blinds your enemy.
- reduces their parry, block.
or
- increases your parry, block.

dodge/disrupt is too much.
not sure AoE or ST.

or
auto interrupt. ST.
or
AP drain. ST.

mirror should have same.
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CytheX
Posts: 105

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#24 » Wed May 16, 2018 3:26 pm

U already have dampening talon for that, and tell me why disrupt is too much, every 1 complain for disrupt rate too high, both side should have

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#25 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:10 pm

Sure. Deft Defender is 18% dodge/disrupt for 20 renown points. Hold the line stacks 3x for another 45%. Most classes also will get 2% disrupt from a helmet or gloves. Also willpower increases disrupt rate as well. Some classes have tactics or abilities that increase disrupt rate (for instance the swordmaster!)

So adding another disrupt buff to the game is ludicrous.

CytheX
Posts: 105

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#26 » Wed May 16, 2018 4:35 pm

I never said to buff disrupt, but to decrease enemy 1

Harkonen
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Posts: 30

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#27 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:02 pm

Ramasee wrote: Wed May 16, 2018 2:56 pm
Harkonen wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 3:22 pm 25% chance on hitting target to proc +5% speed increase to group members with an additional 1% per point spent in Hoeth.
5 second duration with a 10 second internal cooldown.

No damage proc, no damage increase for SM, utility improvement.
The mastery points work on increasing the ranks of the abilities in the tree. So it doesn't quite work to have the base at 5% and increase based on points spent. So we start with a base at level 1 and choose when to add % speed increases. Now we do have the benefit in balancing this on the low end, because swordmaster's do not get heaven's blade at level 25. (Which would put the ability at rank 15 or so without points in hoeth, going to rank 25 at career rank 40)

So solution 3 25% chance on hit to increase movement speed of party members by 1/2 rank% within 100ft for 5s.

Puts it at 7% at rank 15, 12% at rank 25, 20% at rank 40 (15pt hoeth). That's using your 20% movement end result as a base.

I don't know that it needs an ICD if you make it to where it cannot refresh itself.
If the way you explain the ranks coincides with the technical limitations of the game im all for it.

However; even if it cannot refresh itself it can still result in a nearly 100% uptime in large scale blob fighting. By giving it a longer ICD than buff duration you force the group to make the choice (once they receive speed buff) between comitting offense and use speed to charge deep into enemy or commiting to defense using the speed buff to kite away from pressure, knowing there will be a 5 second window slot where they will have to face the concequences of either choice.

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Toldavf
Posts: 1586

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#28 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Spoiler:
Ramasee wrote: Wed May 16, 2018 2:56 pm
Harkonen wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 3:22 pm 25% chance on hitting target to proc +5% speed increase to group members with an additional 1% per point spent in Hoeth.
5 second duration with a 10 second internal cooldown.

No damage proc, no damage increase for SM, utility improvement.
The mastery points work on increasing the ranks of the abilities in the tree. So it doesn't quite work to have the base at 5% and increase based on points spent. So we start with a base at level 1 and choose when to add % speed increases. Now we do have the benefit in balancing this on the low end, because swordmaster's do not get heaven's blade at level 25. (Which would put the ability at rank 15 or so without points in hoeth, going to rank 25 at career rank 40)

So solution 3 25% chance on hit to increase movement speed of party members by 1/2 rank% within 100ft for 5s.

Puts it at 7% at rank 15, 12% at rank 25, 20% at rank 40 (15pt hoeth). That's using your 20% movement end result as a base.

I don't know that it needs an ICD if you make it to where it cannot refresh itself.
[
Free reliable move speed proc for an entire group is to strong. Its a hell of a lot of survival and positioning you are handing out there.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#29 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:30 am

Ramasee wrote: Wed May 16, 2018 2:56 pm
Harkonen wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 3:22 pm 25% chance on hitting target to proc +5% speed increase to group members with an additional 1% per point spent in Hoeth.
5 second duration with a 10 second internal cooldown.

No damage proc, no damage increase for SM, utility improvement.
The mastery points work on increasing the ranks of the abilities in the tree. So it doesn't quite work to have the base at 5% and increase based on points spent. So we start with a base at level 1 and choose when to add % speed increases. Now we do have the benefit in balancing this on the low end, because swordmaster's do not get heaven's blade at level 25. (Which would put the ability at rank 15 or so without points in hoeth, going to rank 25 at career rank 40)

So solution 3 25% chance on hit to increase movement speed of party members by 1/2 rank% within 100ft for 5s.

Puts it at 7% at rank 15, 12% at rank 25, 20% at rank 40 (15pt hoeth). That's using your 20% movement end result as a base.

I don't know that it needs an ICD if you make it to where it cannot refresh itself.
well that would be unlikely; % usually dont scale; they are fix value. All game work like this currently because % alredy scale up on their own during calculation, usually normal values scale instead.

not saying impossible, but weird at least; btw those values for a speed increase will never be implemented groupwide they will be OP especially passive + not removing on skill use components
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Wyzard
Posts: 42

Re: [Swordmaster] Heaven's Blade [Close Date May 28]

Post#30 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:30 am

Ramasee wrote: Fri May 11, 2018 2:38 am

Solution 2: 25% chance on hit to apply a buff to the target for 10s. Whenever the target hits an ally, you heal the ally for X.

This idea was partially introduced to me during pre-discussions about my proposals. I thought it fit well with the healing theme present in the path of Hoeth as well as a few of my other proposals.
I like this idea as well. The two heal tactics are a little underwhelming as it is, and this would help develop a unique role for this tank type.

Perhaps a heal value that scales with points in hoeth.
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