[SM] Heaven's Blade

[CytheX]

A disrupt debuff based on spec level from 1 to 15? Won't buff sm in any way

[dansari]

A disrupt debuff based on spec level from 1 to 15? Won't buff sm in any way

What? Where is the disrupt debuff?

[CytheX]

I mean instead debuffing the resistance, to be usefull for wb plays should debuff disrupt rate.

[peterthepan3]

Whether or not it increases evasive stats or speed, one thing is for sure: enchantments would need a cooldown - lest Khaine SM simply swap to the enchantment to benefit whenever they want.

And yes: I am against making HB give a flat damage % increase. Let's think outside the box.

[Tesq]

A disrupt debuff based on spec level from 1 to 15? Won't buff sm in any way

i can agree on all solution, solutikon 1-b could be made into rng 10% since "save me hide" is a thing but have a short duration

[Harkonen]

Would it technically be possible to code the 3 blade enchants in such a way that as soon as a SM switches blade enchants the effects cancel out on everyone in group?

Example
1. I run NB and steal initiative for 10 seconds
2. I activate HB 4 seconds in
3. The remaining 6 seconds of Initiative debuff on target and initiative buff on party members are both lifted
4. HB is now the active blade enchant
5. HB procs +speed on party members for 5 seconds
6. Three seconds in I decide to switch to PB
7. The remaining 2 second speed buff is removed from everyone in party
8. PB is now the active blade enchant
9. PB procs group shield for 5 seconds
10. Two seconds in I decide to switch to NB
11. The remaining 3 seconds of absorb is removed from everyone in party
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Obviously the timestamps I used result in the SM being AP starved but you get the picture hopefully

The objection I have against lockouts is that you take away the SM's possibility to respond to changing elements in combat (dumbing down the gameplay). By having each Blade Enchant cancel the previous one out you make sure switching does not result in overlapping results.

Edit:
NB = Nature's Blade
HB = Heaven's Blade
PB = Phantom's Blade

[Ramasee]

Whether or not it increases evasive stats or speed, one thing is for sure: enchantments would need a cooldown - lest Khaine SM simply swap to the enchantment to benefit whenever they want.

And yes: I am against making HB give a flat damage % increase. Let's think outside the box.

I agree with reducing the ability for SM's to be able to overlap their blade enchants, if they all become useful/powerful. Should I make a balance proposal on that as well? It would consolidate that discussion out of the two blade enchants threads.

Stack resistance debuffs are bad for the game. I have the math somewhere and I find/will show it if asked. But the end result is exponential damage increases for everyone involved. You would have to make resistance buffs stack in order to balance that. But in the end that heavily punishes people without optimal group set ups for buffs, making the always bring w,x,y,z class even worse.

==========

Alright so if we are looking to avoid to not increase the damage of khaine SM's, solution 1B is definitely out. (That's why it was B) Do we strike it out on the original post to reflect this?

Solution 1a can be scaled with points into hoeth to where it can reliably make heaven's blade damage low if you have spent points to get ether dance.

Solution 2 was given to me by another sword master (sort of). He said make it a lifetap, and I morphed that solution into what I proposed. Roadkillrobin, in order for a swordmaster to take all of the healing in hoeth, two tactics slots and your blade enchantment (as proposed) are used.
The blade enchantment as proposed only heals when the destro it was procced onto hits a party member. This makes it unique compared to the tactic healing components, and also less likely to constantly heal your entire party unless the opponent it triggers on is AoEing your entire party.
Now I do recognize the potential for this getting fairly high in AoE environments, so I would say that it needs a ICD appropriate to the amount of healing inserted for X.

==========
While adding avoidance stats such as disrupt could be a good proposal to add to make the blade enchantment useful, disrupt rates can already be stacked fairly high. I would still like to see enemy magus, sorcs, dpszealots, dps shaman on destro side be useful!

Adding movement speed is also an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how useful it would be since you have to be hitting a target in order to proc a blade enchant. Would allow your party to push back line easier, or disengage better from a fight if need be. I could find situations where I would definitely use the blade enchant. If we did the movement speed increase, I'd reduce the duration to 5s.

[Toldavf]

Please no more damage procs, we had a nerf of those for a reason. Also sword master's damage output is already very sufficient being high above the other tanks.

[Harkonen]

Spoiler:

Whether or not it increases evasive stats or speed, one thing is for sure: enchantments would need a cooldown - lest Khaine SM simply swap to the enchantment to benefit whenever they want.

And yes: I am against making HB give a flat damage % increase. Let's think outside the box.

I agree with reducing the ability for SM's to be able to overlap their blade enchants, if they all become useful/powerful. Should I make a balance proposal on that as well? It would consolidate that discussion out of the two blade enchants threads.

Stack resistance debuffs are bad for the game. I have the math somewhere and I find/will show it if asked. But the end result is exponential damage increases for everyone involved. You would have to make resistance buffs stack in order to balance that. But in the end that heavily punishes people without optimal group set ups for buffs, making the always bring w,x,y,z class even worse.

==========

Alright so if we are looking to avoid to not increase the damage of khaine SM's, solution 1B is definitely out. (That's why it was B) Do we strike it out on the original post to reflect this?

Solution 1a can be scaled with points into hoeth to where it can reliably make heaven's blade damage low if you have spent points to get ether dance.

Solution 2 was given to me by another sword master (sort of). He said make it a lifetap, and I morphed that solution into what I proposed. Roadkillrobin, in order for a swordmaster to take all of the healing in hoeth, two tactics slots and your blade enchantment (as proposed) are used.
The blade enchantment as proposed only heals when the destro it was procced onto hits a party member. This makes it unique compared to the tactic healing components, and also less likely to constantly heal your entire party unless the opponent it triggers on is AoEing your entire party.
Now I do recognize the potential for this getting fairly high in AoE environments, so I would say that it needs a ICD appropriate to the amount of healing inserted for X.

==========
While adding avoidance stats such as disrupt could be a good proposal to add to make the blade enchantment useful, disrupt rates can already be stacked fairly high. I would still like to see enemy magus, sorcs, dpszealots, dps shaman on destro side be useful!

Adding movement speed is also an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how useful it would be since you have to be hitting a target in order to proc a blade enchant. Would allow your party to push back line easier, or disengage better from a fight if need be. I could find situations where I would definitely use the blade enchant. If we did the movement speed increase, I'd reduce the duration to 5s.

25% chance on hitting target to proc +5% speed increase to group members with an additional 1% per point spent in Hoeth.
5 second duration with a 10 second internal cooldown.

No damage proc, no damage increase for SM, utility improvement.

[Darosh]

Generally speaking:

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to standardize the enchantments in terms of trigger, ICDs, proc-chance, fade-off/lingering and scaling (masteries, or else), etc. before tackling tooltip contents ~ to create a proper foundation to build upon (considering enchantments are a big part of the SM class mechanics)?

I dunno how workable it is, but I'd still like to toss it into mix, thinking outside the box-ish:
Tying enchantments into the stances somehow to allow for a (mechanically) reasonable limitation (e.g.: uptime, rotation vs gameflow,...).

It'd add to the skill ceiling, naturally limit the potency of whatever solution is being fancied (i.e.: introduce RNG based on gameflow) and recyle/re-emphasize old mechanics.

To put it into perspective:
Every solution proposed so far could (slightly tweaked) be added to HB and made to require a certain stance without breaking much (no plain increase in anything useful unless the player knows what he does stance wise, I'd imagine ~ I'd personally probably have to consider such a change a nerf as I can't even get stock SM stances work, lol).

Spoiler:

Enchantments as such could make for additional toolkits, more potent on paper than actual stances (SW/Mara) given second-instance proc and stance requirement ~ three enchantments, three procs per enchantment, each proc tied to a specific stance; 9 procs in total. Probably a bit utopian of a system...