[Shaman] You Really Got Nothin

[Dammy095]

1. Replace the racial tactic of whazat behind you with the 10% elven racial tactic. This does effect squig herders, which could be the main downfall of such a proposal.

I think the main downfall of that proposal would be that every good shaman I know slots whazat behind you and even some herders will take it.

could replace " Too smart for dat " tactic instead, or racial resistance tactics are essential ?

[Tesq]

This is a general prob for all healers when hve to use offensive/support stuff while in healing mode

Didn't wargrimm suggested to make count willpower for bypass as do int? It happened at the time with penr when we had that huge disrupt thread.

I dont think the suggestion will be op tought , tactic would be in line with other of the same type

[dshdf]

Spoiler:

(Edit: Forgot the dps AM tactic only works on that tree's abilities, regardless I think most of my post still applies)

Really don't like this solution. The AM equivalent is in the DPS tree, why should this go into the lifesteal tree? Would really screw over (what I consider to be) the normal dps build. Shaman dps is CRAP and the only way you are pulling decent numbers is with an elemental debuff on your enemy so taking both of them (5pts in heal tree, 5 pts in lifesteal tree) is very important IMO. Also dps shamy is insanely squishy and really needs sticky feetz as a kiting tool, putting this tactic that high into the lifesteal tree would make it impossible for them to take the basic kit of http://www.ror.builders/career/shaman/s ... mm=&mt=&t= which doesn't even include many of the tactics or healdebuff you might want spec'd for certain situations. I think you had lifesteal spec in mind when you proposed this but if it became the solution it would make dps shamy spec a whole lot more restrictive build-wise than AM one.

the build you cited is 70+rr, in any other case you have to give up something. Lets pretend that you will give up one of secondary paths. In in case of this topic proporsal you'll have to choose between additional - res, kiting tool and a bit better heals OR - disrupt and more int from Gettin Smarter. So, ihmo it provides divercity, not restricts the buld

Spoiler:

Note: I main AM and Sham, so my opinion is biased. I have also posted my own proposal for Life-Taps, and won’t repeat myself here

So. AM has a 10% strike through tactic. It’s Lifetap and hybrid build still suck. So I fail to see how you can logically say that adding this to sham will solve anything.

A sham with low int will receive low heals from all their lifetaps, regardless of disrupt rates. And even with 10% strike through, if you have less than 250int(full heal/survival gear), you will still be disrupted at a larger amount(avg “defensive” build runs upwards of 30% disrupt for any class, before tank Block or HtL). Run the Math. It’s not hard to figure out you need a bunch of Int before your lifetaps provide more than even DF nerfed heals would.

i definitely agree with you, that Life-tap mechanic need some improvement both for AM and Shaman. But this topic is about lack of ANY tools againt disrupt in ANY build for sham. If im not mistaken its the only( or one of the few) classes without any def % bypass.

About the healing 200 int case: do not forget that you can grab ~ 100 int from dot. With 300-350 int and 10% striketrough there will be an option not to afk HoT fullHP mates, but to use some DoTs/debuffs/lifetaps to help focus someone down. It's not essential, but at least provides you an option. Also do not forget that Eeeeek is often resisted nowadays (if im not mistaken)

Obviously, it would be great to get some striketrough form any tactic, but i believe that there no room for chages in basic shaman tactic set. In that case there are 2 options: 3pt Path of Gork tactic and 7pt Path of da Green, both of which is terrible now, from my point of view. But even if it will be 3pt Gork it should provide 10% overall striketrough (not only for Gork path like AM's one does)

[live4treasure]

I think it's very important to put your proposal into context, though. You want to switch a DPS AM tactic to DPS Sham, and in a vacuum, transfering over the 15% strikethrough for your dps tree abilities sounds fine. However, you should also note, that while DPS AM may seem like it's more effective, DPS Shaman has three major things going for it:

It has a tactic that makes it's main 2s cast damage ability decrease someone's toughness by a considerable amount, which then stacks with any other ability toughness debuff the shaman himself or someone else might put out. It ends up being a pretty massive debuff to someone's toughness.

It has a tactic that gives it a % damage multiplier for a certain duration, enabling shaman to actually put out higher burst in a short window than DPS AM can.

And finally the ubiquitously annoying kiting tactics that make a shaman of any kind so hard to catch that's it's basically a meme at this point.

I'd say if you want the strikethrough, then something out of this list has to give.

[dshdf]

I'd say if you want the strikethrough, then something out of this list has to give.

there 4 tactic slots in game and if we add striketrough to your list it ill be 5
also 2 tactics that you mentioned is 11pt, which forces you to invest 24 pt only to get them without picking any other skills

[dansari]

I'd say if you want the strikethrough, then something out of this list has to give.

That's a fair point in theory, but in practice this forum is meant to discuss underperforming or out of whack abilities/tactics. Generally you should get some worth out of a 7pt tactic... anything that could possibly get traded because of a change is up to torque.

[Foomy44]

the build you cited is 70+rr, in any other case you have to give up something.

Actually it's RR50 (left 2 free points to illustrate that at 70 with this build you could also get some other stuff, hence me calling it the basic kit), and that's including the knockback which definitely isn't needed. You could technically at 70 drop the knockback and take this proposed disrupt tactic but that would only be viable at 70 and would still have the problem of extremely limiting builds for dps shaman. Would still prefer the disrupt to be located in a different place personally.

Obviously, it would be great to get some striketrough form any tactic, but i believe that there no room for chages in basic shaman tactic set. In that case there are 2 options: 3pt Path of Gork tactic and 7pt Path of da Green, both of which is terrible now, from my point of view.

I don't think most people consider being able to pump 300 points of morale into each party member every 10 seconds terrible.

[Foomy44]

Spoiler:

I think it's very important to put your proposal into context, though. You want to switch a DPS AM tactic to DPS Sham, and in a vacuum, transfering over the 15% strikethrough for your dps tree abilities sounds fine. However, you should also note, that while DPS AM may seem like it's more effective, DPS Shaman has three major things going for it:

It has a tactic that makes it's main 2s cast damage ability decrease someone's toughness by a considerable amount, which then stacks with any other ability toughness debuff the shaman himself or someone else might put out. It ends up being a pretty massive debuff to someone's toughness.

It has a tactic that gives it a % damage multiplier for a certain duration, enabling shaman to actually put out higher burst in a short window than DPS AM can.

And finally the ubiquitously annoying kiting tactics that make a shaman of any kind so hard to catch that's it's basically a meme at this point.

I'd say if you want the strikethrough, then something out of this list has to give.

Proposal was for 10%, not 15%, which would still put it 5% under the AM dps tree version.

By "% damage multiplier for a certain duration" are you talking about Nothing but da WAAAGH tactic? That's only effective while the shield stays up on you last I checked, which means for about 1-2 seconds if you are in a fight. Plus is crazy high up the lifesteal tree for a dps spec, you would have a much easier time doing more damage using Sticky Feetz instead, not to mention the snare.

[dansari]

could replace " Too smart for dat " tactic instead, or racial resistance tactics are essential ?

Anything that's changing a racial tactic is probably not going to be implemented any time soon since it requires further analysis on how it affects multiple classes, not just one. Not that racial tactics can't be changed with time, but you can also be more creative than simply copying the high elf racial.

[dansari]

Proposal was for 10%, not 15%, which would still put it 5% under the AM dps tree version.

True, but that tactic is also at 11pt and only affects that tree's abilities. (I know you know that just making the differences clear)