[All] Positional Disrupt Strikethrough

[dansari]

Clarify please, do you intend to turn things undefendable (with positional req.) or do you intend to add positional 5-15% strikethrough?

It should go without saying that the former would utterly break ORvR ~ BW meta on steroids with semi-undefendable Annihilate etc, if targets are even remotely in this proposed arc.

Technically I'm not intending anything, nor am I proposing anything. We're leaving that up to discussion: should it be 100% strikethrough from the back? Should it be 5%? 25%? Should it exist at all?

[lefze]

From the sides - 10% strikethrough.
From the back - 20% strikethrough.

Disrupt issue is so significant, that those values aren't too high.
I like the idea it opens up at least 'some' counterplay. Though, magical classes are not that mobile, so getting always at the back of the enemy won't be an easy task.

20% from the back, 10% from the sides should be reasonable.

[Ramasee]

To get the best picture of this, we are going to need to know how much intelligence actually reduces the target's chance to disrupt (Which I imagine a developer could tell us). Anecdotal evidence and randomly thrown out numbers based off that "evidence" are worthless.

Statdoll disrupt is willpower / 26.25 + disrupt modifiers.

The formula given to me on how strikethrough works in ror by guildmates seems incorrect, but it takes a very long time to test avoidance. This is what I was given:
((willpower / 26.25) + (bonus defense - bonus striketrough)) / (100 + (intelligence / 26.25))

With 221 willpower (the highest base amount from any class) disrupt is 8.42 and most classes have less base willpower than this. +18% from deft defender (20 rp investment), and another 2-10% disrupt from gear depending on if they stack it. Some tactics provide +10% which is a tactic investment. Biggest contributor is 45% from 3x stack of HTL.

To end this aspect before it starts, yes willpower offers duality increased healing and % disrupt chance. Offensive stats offer duality of increased damage and increased strikethrough. Wounds is the only stat without a dual nature to it.

Melee combat is inherently more dangerous and it takes more risk to get behind a target. Counterplay is that it is easier to track mdps in a larger fight and keep them in front of you over ranged dps.
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1. Since a lot of disrupt modifiers require some sort of investment on behalf of the defender, are we going to give this for free to casters?

2. 8.5% disrupt strikethrough from behind seems the most fair to give for free (without knowing intelligence strikethrough numbers) given that 8.5% disrupt is the most given for free to players.

3. Do devs have the capability without client control to modify renown abilities?

4. What about only negating the benefits of Hold the Line if you are behind the target?

[Tesq]

i think rather than 1 big fix the way is go with a lot of smaller tweek

1-differentiate hold the line buff on others betweeen rvr/sc
-leave cap the same (45%) but increase the tank required from 3 to 6 aka stacks made by 8% instead 15%, this will lower overall sc disrupt (assuming 4 tanks it will be 32% vs old 45%)

2-cut half willpower contribution to disrupt;
-work 2x the degree of parry and only archtype using the stats get it 70% for free, aka fix a specific problem (more or less 3% reduction post int bypass)

3- cut half the disrupt chance on dots only
-i mean multiple ticks over time not sorc/bw 5 sec shenanigans ones; this will partially fix stuff like magus dotting and sorc very meh dotting skills which bw dont have and got alredy under balance discussion.

if disrupt direct hit chance = 70%
then disrupt dots ticks chance = 35%

P.S:

4-am/sham attacks need a meccanic rewamp for their balance, keep em out of the problem, focus on the rest of the 22 classes right now.

[Karast]

This would be a huge balance change, and in effect would serve as a huge buff to some careers and not others.

Some careers rely on front cone AoEs, while others use PBAOE. It is much easier to simply push past and spam PBAOE gaining advantage of the new proposed mechanic, than it would be for a cone AoE user.

Personally I think if such a system were to be added it should be exactly the same as block and parry. Uniformity of game systems is important and simplicity is best. Each avoidance type need not work on it's own set of rules, it just makes the back ground knowledge needed to play effectively, needlessly dense.

I fully agree that disrupt is an issue, but I do not think this is the right way to resolve it. If the renown dodge / disrupt were reduced or removed it would have largely the same effect, or if the willpower / ini scaling reduced.

[MedV]

I think the change shouldnt be a disrupt strikethrough based on positioning... as a RDPS its hard to position yourself behind someone when youre 80 ft away.

I think it shld be minor tweaks on the amount of disrupt Willpower gives. Healers are extremely tank now a days with detaunts self heals andddd disrupts. Having one skill increase both healing power andddd disrupt chance is a little overwhelming currently.

Maybe add disrupt strike through on more armor as bonus stats. Give people a way to add to their strikethrough more. Currently Tanks and healers disrupt too much.

This affects certain classes more like Shammy and Magus. By not making it a positional you can keep Sorc/BW stats the same while adding perks to those classes that are affected.

[dansari]

Some careers rely on front cone AoEs, while others use PBAOE. It is much easier to simply push past and spam PBAOE gaining advantage of the new proposed mechanic, than it would be for a cone AoE user.

Same could be said if you push past the frontline and turn to deal cone damage, or if you push past frontline and backline is retreating: you'd gain dis strikethrough on the backline.

I disagree that it should work exactly like block/parry. Melee has more inherent risk, thus more reward for striking the back. Ranged has less inherent risk.

[dansari]

Maybe add disrupt strike through on more armor as bonus stats. Give people a way to add to their strikethrough more. Currently Tanks and healers disrupt too much.

This affects certain classes more like Shammy and Magus. By not making it a positional you can keep Sorc/BW stats the same while adding perks to those classes that are affected.

We should refrain from looking at gear as a "fix." Certainly, sorc/BW can slot 4 conq/5 BL/3 genesis to gain decent dis strikethrough; that shouldn't be a prerequisite to make a class "viable" -- kind of pertaining to rule #6.

[Aurandilaz]

Disrupts are an issue that is well known if you play any of the 7/24 classes that focus on doing magical dmg in the game.
Obviously some sort of help in gaining strikethrough would help, but the way OP suggests with positional checks would benefit some classes way more than others.
Sorc AoE is frontal cone, IW being the best example, followed by IS, both shot forwards from Sorc in a cone. SP is also somewhat in same category, same with DC, they launch from Sorc outwards in all directions. Only SK and PoS are anchored in some distant target/area and dmg spreads from there.
BW meanwhile has same SP=SE and DC=Anni as Sorc, but instead of IW there is previously instacast, now 1.5sec Fieryblast that is launched at target, and from there explodes to other nearby targets, Detonate being kinda similar. Flamebreath/IS are kinda similar, same with FBB(much shorter CD, much faster hits, awesome synergy with FF)/SK.
BW with fast Fieryblasts and easier usable FBB would gain far better advantage than Sorc that far more relies on frontal cone AoE dmg. (example, target 1.5s Fieryblast at a Choppa standing behind 8 tanks or on a heavy armoured low willpower DoK - whereas Sorc IW just hits the tank wall in the front.)

What I'd rather see is change the way Willpower gives Disrupt, say instead of current ratio it would be 75% of the previous or 50% and see how it would require further tuning.
Or something that I've thought of before, have Willpower and Initiative count together into a common pool, with the end sum being divided by 2, which then gives that amount of Dodge, Disrupt and chance-to-be-crit. (effectively giving healers less disrupt, but far lower chance to be crit, and possibly better dodge ratios) [and OTOH, classes with low Willpower would have their Init value giving better Disrupt chance, while now needing even more Init to get lower chance to be crit - which might however require further tuning with the Chance-to-be-crit formula to avoid extremes on either end of the scale.]
Or another idea; remove Init from feeding to defence check values, and have 50% of Willpower rate feed into Disrupts, and the other 50% into Dodge. Init would focus solely on C-t-b-Crit, and if you want good decent defences against A L L RDPS, focus solely on high willpower, healers gain less Disrupt but better Dodge rate, less annoying for magical dps but surely more annoying for physical rdps. Would be certainly more evened out state of balance with "Dodge-Disrupt-Dodge-Disrupt" than "Disrupt-Disrupt-Disrupt-Disrupt".

[Bozzax]

Should be left untouched as it would make zerging easier and making disengage/kite harder for any smaller force (bc of lowered avoidance on aveage).

As pointed out above also would change the relative power of all frontal (st, cone) vs spot aoe (target, ground or self) ranged abilitets.

Kiting off pressure as melee with dots on you and dd raining in = increased damage?