[Dev] Tank morale overhaul

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shaggyboomboom
Posts: 1208

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#71 » Wed May 08, 2019 3:42 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:04 am
many have already pointed out that
any morale related to hp is OP. it need to be changed.
BG, IB, chosen, knight.
they're already tanky enough whether 2h or snb. no need to have additional self heal.
let healers do healing. tanks can be buffer/debuffer.

for wings of heaven.
- remove snare and root effect and immune to them for x seconds.
5~7 sec for grp or 30~50ft around caster. or 7~10 sec for self.
- 10~15% avoidance buff except himself. grp or 30~50ft around caster.
- armor buff. grp or 30~50ft around caster.
- grp AP restoration for 5~10 sec.
- when he gets the healing, it also heals same amount for any allies around 30~50ft of him.

for Tzeentch's Amplification.
- grp AP restoration for 5~10 sec.
- when he gets the healing, it also heals same amount for any allies around 30~50ft of him.
- simply reduce duration to 10 sec and healing % to 100~150.
- cast time reduced by 25% around 30ft of caster.
- any allies around 30~50ft cannot be interrupted for 10sec.

ps. @tesq, in-game item wall of teskh has interesting description ;)
yet again, you prove you have no idea how balance works, how class synergies work or what they are even. not even a single argument
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6297

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#72 » Wed May 08, 2019 3:49 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:50 am
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:37 am
anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:04 am
many have already pointed out that
any morale related to hp is OP. it need to be changed.
Haven't seen a single argument that would lead me to believe that such Morales are 'OP'.

you said it.
peterthepan3 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:25 pm
it would heal you to full if you used it at the right time,

self healing tanks are kinda OP in any situation, any game.
in case of BG/IB, they already have one.
no need additional healing IMO.
...that isn't overpowered whatsoever. Key words are 'at the right time', so its potency was dependent on you, the player, knowing when the best time to use it would be. This would also explain why, for some, the Morale may have appeared 'weak'; using it when you only have 1 or 2 DoTs would do very little, whereas using it when you had 20+ DoTs/debuffs on you would bring you back to almost full health. It's potency was entirely dependent on how the player used it, sorta risk v reward (the 'risk' being that you blow it prematurely and gain very little out of it, or wait too long and get CC'd before you can use it).

Your interpretation of what is overpowered seems to differ greatly from the vast majority: slotting this Morale meant you would lose either Champion's Challenge or Demolishing Strike - which is huge for a 6-man - but granted you some semblance of a sub-M3 defensive Morale.
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anarchypark
Posts: 1195

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#73 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:25 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:49 pm
Spoiler:
anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:50 am
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:37 am


Haven't seen a single argument that would lead me to believe that such Morales are 'OP'.

you said it.
peterthepan3 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:25 pm
it would heal you to full if you used it at the right time,

self healing tanks are kinda OP in any situation, any game.
in case of BG/IB, they already have one.
no need additional healing IMO.
...that isn't overpowered whatsoever. Key words are 'at the right time', so its potency was dependent on you, the player, knowing when the best time to use it would be. This would also explain why, for some, the Morale may have appeared 'weak'; using it when you only have 1 or 2 DoTs would do very little, whereas using it when you had 20+ DoTs/debuffs on you would bring you back to almost full health. It's potency was entirely dependent on how the player used it, sorta risk v reward (the 'risk' being that you blow it prematurely and gain very little out of it, or wait too long and get CC'd before you can use it).

Your interpretation of what is overpowered seems to differ greatly from the vast majority: slotting this Morale meant you would lose either Champion's Challenge or Demolishing Strike - which is huge for a 6-man - but granted you some semblance of a sub-M3 defensive Morale.

right, overpowered was strong word.
as u stated, when u had 20+ it's too strong.
it's extream case, not rare to tanks.
it's up to players but they can find extream moment.
that's the thing to look at and be balanced.

players always find fastest, highest way for things.
and rule makers fix it.

300 x 10~20 is too much, on the tank who already have heal skill.
it's irrelevant that there are other m1.
if BG choose this morale, he can do it.

after you have what to fix,
how to fix is another matter though.
i think rework is better than cure limit 3 or something.
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Tesq
Posts: 5193

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#74 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:34 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:25 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:49 pm
Spoiler:
anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:50 am



you said it.




self healing tanks are kinda OP in any situation, any game.
in case of BG/IB, they already have one.
no need additional healing IMO.
...that isn't overpowered whatsoever. Key words are 'at the right time', so its potency was dependent on you, the player, knowing when the best time to use it would be. This would also explain why, for some, the Morale may have appeared 'weak'; using it when you only have 1 or 2 DoTs would do very little, whereas using it when you had 20+ DoTs/debuffs on you would bring you back to almost full health. It's potency was entirely dependent on how the player used it, sorta risk v reward (the 'risk' being that you blow it prematurely and gain very little out of it, or wait too long and get CC'd before you can use it).

Your interpretation of what is overpowered seems to differ greatly from the vast majority: slotting this Morale meant you would lose either Champion's Challenge or Demolishing Strike - which is huge for a 6-man - but granted you some semblance of a sub-M3 defensive Morale.

right, overpowered was strong word.
as u stated, when u had 20+ it's too strong.
it's extream case, not rare to tanks.
it's up to players but they can find extream moment.
that's the thing to look at and be balanced.

players always find fastest, highest way for things.
and rule makers fix it.

300 x 10~20 is too much, on the tank who already have heal skill.
it's irrelevant that there are other m1.
if BG choose this morale, he can do it.

after you have what to fix,
how to fix is another matter though.
i think rework is better than cure limit 3 or something.
Man it's a panic button it does what other panic button does....save tour tank_ass....alla tanks have these in some forma or another some are passive and some are active, some require hit some other dont.... some have 30 sec CD and and some 60 . The higher the CD the stronger the panic button is....its 60 sec CD...what did you expect 2 k heal on 10k of hp pool?? Thats 1 st heal man..
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6297

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#75 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:36 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 5:25 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 3:49 pm
Spoiler:
anarchypark wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:50 am



you said it.




self healing tanks are kinda OP in any situation, any game.
in case of BG/IB, they already have one.
no need additional healing IMO.
...that isn't overpowered whatsoever. Key words are 'at the right time', so its potency was dependent on you, the player, knowing when the best time to use it would be. This would also explain why, for some, the Morale may have appeared 'weak'; using it when you only have 1 or 2 DoTs would do very little, whereas using it when you had 20+ DoTs/debuffs on you would bring you back to almost full health. It's potency was entirely dependent on how the player used it, sorta risk v reward (the 'risk' being that you blow it prematurely and gain very little out of it, or wait too long and get CC'd before you can use it).

Your interpretation of what is overpowered seems to differ greatly from the vast majority: slotting this Morale meant you would lose either Champion's Challenge or Demolishing Strike - which is huge for a 6-man - but granted you some semblance of a sub-M3 defensive Morale.

right, overpowered was strong word.
as u stated, when u had 20+ it's too strong.
it's extream case, not rare to tanks.
it's up to players but they can find extream moment.
that's the thing to look at and be balanced.

players always find fastest, highest way for things.
and rule makers fix it.

300 x 10~20 is too much, on the tank who already have heal skill.
it's irrelevant that there are other m1.
if BG choose this morale, he can do it.

after you have what to fix,
how to fix is another matter though.
i think rework is better than cure limit 3 or something.
1) I didn't say it was too strong; I said that it is a strong Morale that rewards good usage of it, but is kinda meh if you don't use it properly - and that is totally fine. Such a Morale fits the class perfectly: BG and IB are universally regarded as the hardest tanks to play well, with a meticulous level of micromanagement involved if you want to get the best results - and 'correct' usage of Morales should be no exception to this.

2) You assume that the BG would be spec'd for heal...the heal spec is useless for both WB and group; it is an entirely solo/niche spec. For a conventional group BG, you will be spec'd Malice/Loath, or Malice/Anguish; you will not be spec'd for the heal because that's what having healers is for!

To reiterate: having an ability that gives big reward when used properly, and small reward when used poorly, is totally fine.
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footpatrol2
Posts: 1058

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#76 » Wed May 08, 2019 9:48 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:36 pm
2) You assume that the BG would be spec'd for heal...the heal spec is useless for both WB and group; it is an entirely solo/niche
I am just being nit picky and probably annoying but m4 in anguish is the best morale bomb component for a tank destro side, which is the heal spec... ... ... In Maliketh's Name = 1800 AE 30ft instant morale damage + AE 30ft 5 sec silence. I think that's the highest damaging morale coming from a tank destro side. Which is useful and desired in warband play.

But if your not running spec specific with your group comp and just take whatever rolls in, you'll miss this and won't see the value.
Last edited by footpatrol2 on Wed May 08, 2019 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6297

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#77 » Wed May 08, 2019 10:03 pm

footpatrol2 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:48 pm
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:36 pm
2) You assume that the BG would be spec'd for heal...the heal spec is useless for both WB and group; it is an entirely solo/niche
I am just being nit picky and probably annoying but m4 in anguish is the best morale bomb component for a tank destro side, which is the heal spec... ... ... In Maliketh's Name = 1800 AE 30ft instant morale damage + AE 30ft 5 sec silence. I think that's the highest damaging morale coming from a tank destro side. Which is useful and desired in warband play.
So the M4 may see some use (doubt people will ever bring a BG over a BO or Chosen for this, but maybe some will), but that doesn't negate from my point re BA being useless in all environments outside of solo/1v1.
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footpatrol2
Posts: 1058

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#78 » Wed May 08, 2019 10:05 pm

I was just pointing out there is use for a heavy anguish BG in a warband and the spec is not just for solo/niche play.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6297

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#79 » Wed May 08, 2019 11:59 pm

footpatrol2 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 10:05 pm
I was just pointing out there is use for a heavy anguish BG in a warband and the spec is not just for solo/niche play.
....the ability is (never said spec).

I don't disagree with you on the M4 necessarily.
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Luuca
Posts: 1178

Re: Tank morale overhaul

Post#80 » Thu May 09, 2019 12:05 am

One small step for RoR
One giant leap towards true mirroring.
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