[Dev] White Lion proposal

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

Spoiler:

Literally every other MDPS gets to control when they knock a target down, and that ability cannot be removed from them by killing a squishy pet that cannot be targeted easily by healers, nor can receive group heals.

Choppa needs to be engaged in combat for 10 seconds and loses 50% damage if it uses knockdown

Marauder needs to disrupt a magical attack in order to use knockdown.

[Manatikik]

Spoiler:

Literally every other MDPS gets to control when they knock a target down, and that ability cannot be removed from them by killing a squishy pet that cannot be targeted easily by healers, nor can receive group heals.

Choppa needs to be engaged in combat for 10 seconds and loses 50% damage if it uses knockdown

Marauder needs to disrupt a magical attack in order to use knockdown.

Or use your aoe kd... In no universe can anyone argue Mara has worse/less utility than a WL. WL’s CC is not a problem at all.

[Lime]

I think the main issue with the WL/ASW/SM is the sheer mobility not so much the damage. The mobility allows Order to go backline or do kill target swaps and kill unguarded targets very easily. Nerfing CS is not gonna stop them from jumping and blowing up your backline. You could make CS a dot that gives more sustained damage and less burst as well but that doesn't fix the mobility problem.

Destro has only 1 class with a pounce and that's melee squig which is not in the 6 man meta where order has 3 classes that are meta for 6 man.

I think it would be better to mirror the mobility to Destro than to gut those classes with nerfs.

[MedV]

Spoiler:

Literally every other MDPS gets to control when they knock a target down, and that ability cannot be removed from them by killing a squishy pet that cannot be targeted easily by healers, nor can receive group heals.

Choppa needs to be engaged in combat for 10 seconds and loses 50% damage if it uses knockdown

Marauder needs to disrupt a magical attack in order to use knockdown.

Or use your aoe kd... In no universe can anyone argue Mara has worse/less utility than a WL. WL’s CC is not a problem at all.

AOE KD is 9 points in the Monstro tree... taking that would mean no Growing Instability... no guillitone and No mutated agressor ...3 hugeeee parts of the mara. So yes you cld take a AOE KD that needs to be used in the monstro tree and give up 3 incredibly powerful abilities.

wait wait wait... did you think aoe KD was a core ability ?!?! lmao

[Stophy22]

Or use your aoe kd... In no universe can anyone argue Mara has worse/less utility than a WL. WL’s CC is not a problem at all.

WL can knock you down, then back up and fetch you disabling you for anywhere from 5-6seconds, all while attacking you. BG on his best has 5second KD which requires a shield. Mara has to spec into monstro for AOE knockdown, instead of going into brutality to get Guillotine or Mutated aggressor.

Now you are right, Mara has a much better utility kit than WL ever will but you have to spec into it. WL, being able to disable someone for 5/6 seconds and damage them the entire time is just too reliable. (since its all tied to your pet, not really wasting any downtime making sure your pet does an attack within the next 20 seconds, etc.)

The only people mara can do this on are mages (disrupt) who are squishy enough that you don't need extra front load burst like Coordinated Strike, let alone you have to stop dps and break distance to grasp them back to you. Most people will just Grasp if the target is getting away and not try to chain the CC like most white lions, since its not really practical mara doesn't have a pet to do damage while the enemy is flying through the air.

Damage uptime for KD Fetch combo for WL is 100% (the pet never stop attacking while the target flies through the air or you have to break distance and wait for fetch to be usable. Mara doesn't have the same damage up time. That's the point I'm trying to make.

[Manatikik]

Spoiler:

Choppa needs to be engaged in combat for 10 seconds and loses 50% damage if it uses knockdown

Marauder needs to disrupt a magical attack in order to use knockdown.

Or use your aoe kd... In no universe can anyone argue Mara has worse/less utility than a WL. WL’s CC is not a problem at all.

AOE KD is 9 points in the Monstro tree... taking that would mean no Growing Instability... no guillitone and No mutated agressor ...3 hugeeee parts of the mara. So yes you cld take a AOE KD that needs to be used in the monstro tree and give up 3 incredibly powerful abilities.

wait wait wait... did you think aoe KD was a core ability ?!?! lmao

So like how you give up CtW, Primal Frenzy, and Thin the Herd to get Brutal Pounce? It’s almost like making choices for on demand CC has some trade offs. And obviously I know what is and isn’t speccable.

[MedV]

Or use your aoe kd... In no universe can anyone argue Mara has worse/less utility than a WL. WL’s CC is not a problem at all.

AOE KD is 9 points in the Monstro tree... taking that would mean no Growing Instability... no guillitone and No mutated agressor ...3 hugeeee parts of the mara. So yes you cld take a AOE KD that needs to be used in the monstro tree and give up 3 incredibly powerful abilities.

wait wait wait... did you think aoe KD was a core ability ?!?! lmao

So like how you give up CtW, Primal Frenzy, and Thin the Herd to get Brutal Pounce? It’s almost like making choices for on demand CC has some trade offs. And obviously I know what is and isn’t speccable.

Spoiler:

oBvIOusLy

I cant wait to wake up tmmrw and see all the WL/Order players qq in this thread... Wake me up.

Keep it civil or you won’t be able to see this forum.

[Jackiee]

As has been stated above by others, reducing pet stats first (which is how this whole mess began) and then potentially changing the ICD on LF, and finally nerfing the damage on brutal pounce is the best course of action.

There is 0 reason to start messing up the mastery trees, the goal should not be to nerf the feel of the class, but to reduce the effectiveness.

[Acidic]

From Destro squishy point of view I like the idea of the suggested change, it is really annoying the knock down and burst combined , however the tweaking of pet damage via stats inheritance from owner seems good, this will reduce the overall pet damage contribution. This sounds like a less intrusive direction with the benefit of reducing the total dependence on the pet.
As it is a recurring theme on WL threads to say that the pet and its actions are less than reliable it would make sense to reduce the pets contribution to damage and by such reduce owners reliance on it.

[DanielWinner]

1st dev suggestion seems too devastating to the class and may result in a class being gutted completely.
2st suggestion seems reasonable.

Also, I believe, there are some other things which could turn down WL a bit without messing up with core things.
If dev team is interested in any suggestions, of course.

So, here are some suggestions for the class:

1) Move Pounce to the 13 pt.
- No doubt it’s one of the strongest skills the class has and it’s much more stronger than current 13pt (Whirling Axe).
With such change WL could not have both insane mobility and all other burst goddies. Without low hanging Pounce it will be much more easier to spot WL going for you to burst you down (or if WL still goes for pounce, then it won’t have other things which makes it that bursty right now), it will give you time to detaunt, position and etc. Must be a good change overall.

2) Lower armour debuff value of Force Opportunity (same may effect Marauder).
Basically it will lower overall solo damage of this class but also will provide more diversity to the game since current armor debuff is mandatory for every physical damage group.