[Dev] White Lion proposal

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Drysill
Posts: 33

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#121 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:57 am

Atropik wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:56 am
Drysill wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:40 am
Suggestions:
1. Increase pet speed without SpTraining tactic (to a lesser degree) so a tactic slot is free and use something else to compensate..
2. Merge SpTraining + Full Growth into 1 core tactic
3. Remake a never-used skill (like Hack) into lifetap, to increase survivability, in accordance with other mdps, but not through tactic.
4. Change pet ability Shred (at reduced value) to stack armor debuff with FOpp.
In general, I would like to see TTThreaten be appealing to use.. maybe crit% scale with tree ranks like 1% per 2 ranks, minimum 3% and remove side/rear condition.
Also, ignore haters asking for more nerf, when its clearly l2p issue. ty
You my hero. Remove all conditions, buff crit rate, give lifetap, buff speed and provide 2.5k armor debuff. Is everything correct?

i se only 2 possible solutions:
- Decrease FO armor debuff value,
- Remove pet from the game.
All of them would be overkill. Just replace ‘and’ with ‘or’ and reconsider 
Unless you insist so much…:P

So you trying to be the hero here. Why don’t just delete the class all together…
Sido wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:16 pm
I didn't read anything about auto-attack in this thread (besides Aurandilaz mentioning it), but I think it should be discussed because from what I saw in game it's a big part of the WL frontload.
Auto attack has to do with dps and speed of the weapon. What weapon makes more damage?
1. 100 damage every second or
2. 1000 damage every 10 seconds?
Or it’s the same after all. Considering procs, case 1 has 10x more chance to proc than case 2. Which means Dual Weild have advantage over 2H.
With 20 AA haste, will it be 1000 damage every 8 sec or 800 damage every 8 sec? Don’t know for sure, maybe a Dev can clarify.
Stophy22 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 3:42 am
The main points I wanted to get across is the WL can do effectively what 2 people on the opposite realm have to do. (Marauder doesn’t have CS and SH doesn’t have 1.5k armor strip) and thusly causes it to over preform in a solo pug environment which when it does this is very off putting to players of all but I’m most concerned new players who pick up ROR and try it out and are faced with this wall of damage called the WL and struggle to find a way to deal with it and may eventually give up.
A lot of players also want an aoe warband spec for WL, I think I that’s something to look into. Could be a positive addition to the class
All classes have similar skills to other different classes… example: Mara has 65’pull like WL and wound debuff like KotBS.
Your arguments are inexistent. You admit you are solo pug so you desperate asking for a big nerf, but not for yourself, just for the new players… so cute…
A lot of players want an aoe WB spec?? how you know this? Done any research? But who cares… you only play solo, it will be other’s ppl problem.

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Stophy22
Posts: 199

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#122 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:01 am

Lol I know it by reading the thread... and WL has everything Mara has and SH has to preform well solo. Your argument makes 0 sense, you’re just mad. Wargrim said it’s a nerf. I’m not asking for a nerf it’s happening.

Go ahead and nerf blackguard lol, Ill still play the class. I wish you’d read the other 10 pages before making a comment
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abodam
Posts: 122

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#123 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:02 am

Personally I do not think the damage is too much, but the combination of mobility, hard CC and CC immunity on Pet makes it more potent than it should be.
Brutal Pounce should be looked at as the main point of this nerf. WLs would be still able to be potent with their pet spec, but you would have more options how to defend against it.
Pet scaling could be looked at, from different class perspective (Magus) it made pets actually deal damage with their skills, which was nice change from just being buff/debuff tower.
Jackiee wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 2:18 am
Its okay to nerf the Guardian spec, I think its deserved as it does pose a problem in lower tiers of play. But I think other specs for the class should be compensated accordingly. Primal Fury should be buffed so that its 25% damage is not dependent on the enemies direction, and Pack Synergy should likely be reworked in a manner that isnt a tactic that depends on the pet to be alive.

Changing the burst in a way that pugs can survive it also means that the class wont really have much of a place in competitive play, because the pet is such a big liability vs good players. There should be some compensation to bring the other specs of WL into a more competitive state (read: less dependence on a pet).

WL already doesnt have a place in warbands, not giving it a bone for play vs good players while nerfing it kind of puts the class in an awkward state.
This is funny, last 6v6 event one of the order groups ran WL in Axeman spec with Revenge and won all their fights with no issues, and historically have great record with this setup in all 6v6 tournaments. Buffing other specs would just swap FOTM to other tree. Not to mention how many classes have no place in any serious competitive play.
Magus / BG

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#124 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:34 am

Karast wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:41 am
A quick question for Wargrimnir,

Do you have any metrics on the current level of burst damage between comparably geared melee dps?

There are often complaints that WL has too much burst but when it comes down to hard numbers from a sample rotation there really is nothing to be found, and unless if you have access to equally ranked, and geared toons it is hard to really test and compare the burst dps.

It would really be nice to have some bench marks that look at length of rotation and total damage.
This should have been included in the proposal as a reason to alter the changes. Also should include the amount that they wish to nerf the burst damage and how the proposed changes are supposed to achieve that goal. Staff members can spawn in gear at all levels and try it out against other staff members. Something that the players simply can not do.

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bctakhy
Posts: 89

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#125 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:30 am

All classes have similar skills to other different classes… example: Mara has 65’pull like WL and wound debuff like KotBS.
Your arguments are inexistent. You admit you are solo pug so you desperate asking for a big nerf, but not for yourself, just for the new players… so cute…
A lot of players want an aoe WB spec?? how you know this? Done any research? But who cares… you only play solo, it will be other’s ppl problem.
WL dont have pull like mara. Mara pull have 2 sec cast, with FX on who is geting pulled. WL pull is insta and u dont see who will get pulled.
Also wounds debuff is not same in order and in destro, since order have wounds buff and destro dont.

All games have some class than is better than others. Comun trick is rotate the OP class to make game less bored and keep game alive. The WL is not the case. It is not OP... it is just broken.

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normanis
Posts: 415
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#126 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:36 am

grunbag have nice idea . nerf st damage byt boost a bit aoe.
btw cs can be maden only for player and it place dot what is stacked 4 times at begin and every tick it slowly fades out . like next tick its 3 stack and than 2 and than 1. ( its still burst damage but not in 1 sec )

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normanis
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#127 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:40 am

out of topic witch elf have wounds debuff 58, chosen 76 and mara100(i think ist 100), and best wounds debuff is bg 120 - need tactic.
order side priest should train it ( he lose morale 4 from heal tree) and its 50 wounds. kobs need 2h to debuff wounds and slayer need also 2h to debuff wounds 160. ( train also). atleast its how i last time checked tham

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Drysill
Posts: 33

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#128 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:54 am

Stophy22 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:01 am
Lol I know it by reading the thread... and WL has everything Mara has and SH has to preform well solo. Your argument makes 0 sense, you’re just mad. Wargrim said it’s a nerf. I’m not asking for a nerf it’s happening.
Go ahead and nerf blackguard lol, Ill still play the class. I wish you’d read the other 10 pages before making a comment
These are your arguments … calling me mad and lie shamelessly about skills… gg.
So where on WL are the following effects that mara has and WL has as well??
Wounds Debuff (Thunderus Blow)
50% armor bypass tactic (Piercing Bite)
Self-heal (Monstro)
No more lies ….. WL has not everything mara has

Wargrim said it’s a nerf. You are asking for more..

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Aceboltz
Posts: 249

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#129 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:59 am

normanis wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 11:40 am
out of topic witch elf have wounds debuff 58, chosen 76 and mara100(i think ist 100), and best wounds debuff is bg 120 - need tactic.
order side priest should train it ( he lose morale 4 from heal tree) and its 50 wounds. kobs need 2h to debuff wounds and slayer need also 2h to debuff wounds 160. ( train also). atleast its how i last time checked tham
Order has acces to a 80 wounds buff. Basically we and chosen only offset this debuff, mara reduces wound by 20 and BG by 40. While order can debuff from 50 up to 160. Both BG and Mara have to spec for it. Warhammer online balance in a nutshell.

Fiskrens
Posts: 47

Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#130 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:00 pm

If the issue with WL is having high burst+mobility+CC wouldn't it be best to direct the nerfs towards the only spec that has all of these namely Guardian. Unless ofcourse hunter/axeman is also considered an issue but rarely do I hear people complain about that spec.
Easiest way to nerf guardian damage would be to put an ICD on leonine frenzy, if that's not enough then nerf the dmg on leonine frenzy aswell. Next step would be to nerf TTK. All of these nerfs would hit guardian only and more importantly, they would hit guardian pet dmg while leaving hunter/axeman viable.

For those asking for higher AP cost you should know that WL already has AP issues as it is, making it worse will not only nerf dmg but destroy gameplay completely.
My main concern are sweeping nerfs that cripple all other specs.

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