Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

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Luuca
Posts: 1210

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#91 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:34 pm

Parallell86 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:04 pm
Off-topic
Spoiler:
Luuca wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:51 pm
Parallell86 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:35 pm


So where is the Order version of the Black orc punting morale?
Why are order M3 damage morales being nerfed while Destro M3's being buffed?

Is that the homogenized kinda game you're talking about?
It's only a first pass. It looks like eventually they will be mirrored. Be patient! Soon BWs on Destro!!!
Ye but I think you are confusing "balancing" with making destro stronger. And currently the BW is not better than the sorc. Where did you get that? They nerfed the BW to the **** ground. If they turned my hypotetical sorc into a BW I would be **** pissed.

The sorc is superior to the BW in every aspect right now.

And no, its not gonna change. Order will never see any Destro abilities unless its something shitty and meaningless just to put out the fire and keep people quiet.

The last year, they done nothing but nerfing order and buffing destro.

- Nerfed Flashfire tactic on BW. Nerfed Wildfire tactic on BW
- Mirrored pounce from WL to melee SH which btw already have the Assault stance effect from SW (insane armor boost).
- Super buffed the WE. The dot tree. The execution abilities. Handed them everything the WH has to make sure they outclass the WH in every aspect.
- Buffed the choppas. (with broken CC, without intention of fixing it. And yes if being pulled through the keep floor is not broken...then everything works fine in comparison)
- Super buffed Black Orcs....dunno where to start. So I wont.

Most interesting:

They wanted to make abilities matching the animations a while ago.
The funny thing is, the magus rift has a 1s animation. The engineer have a 3s animation. So now it takes the engineer 4s to set off the magnet, while it only takes a total of 2s to set off the magus rift.

Homogenized enough for you?

Everything they done so far, have been in Destros favour. When this game was still untouched. Both realms had their ups and downs. Their own strenghts and weaknesses. Now its just all destro.

2010: "hey guys what is a really good class to play?" - "dude play what you enjoy, thats the best class."

2019: "Hey guys what should I play?" - "Black orc, choppa, SH or Zealot."
"I sort of like the BW."
"Then go roll a sorc."
I will not continue the off-topic conversation except to say the devs are doing a great job in incremental steps to balance the game as best they can given the disparity among the classes. You have a grass is always greener mentality and you can't fix bias.

Keep up the great work Devs. Growth is painful. We accept the pain.
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WeGotThis
Posts: 23

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#92 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:58 am

bctakhy wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:41 am
Btw, now order gets one more pull, where is destro morale pounce? :>
Good idea, Choppa pull all 20s, SM pull would be M4,
so it would be fair to make SH pounce M4 too...

This ignorance in a Feedback topic, i shouldn't care but some people believe what's written here.
So don't Troll arround. Plz

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bctakhy
Posts: 79

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#93 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:52 pm

WeGotThis wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:58 am
bctakhy wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:41 am
Btw, now order gets one more pull, where is destro morale pounce? :>
Good idea, Choppa pull all 20s, SM pull would be M4,
so it would be fair to make SH pounce M4 too...

This ignorance in a Feedback topic, i shouldn't care but some people believe what's written here.
So don't Troll arround. Plz

What u talking about? Order have 3 puller with this change (WL, eng and SM) destro have also 3 (mara, magus and choppa)
But order have 3 pounce (WL, SW and SM) where destro only have 1 (SH)... Im the ignorance? Im the troll? Think again...

WeGotThis
Posts: 23

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#94 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:37 am

bctakhy wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:52 pm
What u talking about? Order have 3 puller with this change (WL, eng and SM) destro have also 3 (mara, magus and choppa)
But order have 3 pounce (WL, SW and SM) where destro only have 1 (SH)... Im the ignorance? Im the troll? Think again...
yes you are still a troll...

You can't compare Pounce with Pull... Example of a keepfunnel, what would you like more?
Pull the Funnelers in/out or Pounce out of guard range in ~50 AoE skills...

SW Pounce? who is troll now? for Shadow step the SH has get a 75% movement skill(Outta my way)

WL Pounce -> SH pounce...

There is the 1 Minute cooldown pounce of SM left (If you would have read the topic you would know that they think about changing that moralability.)
But well, if you want mirror the mobility skill, give BO a Moral Pounce, but therefor you have to give Run tactic of SH/Shaman to AM/SW, also the "Runaway" skill of SH would have to be mirrorer to SW.

Don't remember who has that in his signature, but I will quote that for you

If you want mirror classes, go play chess :lol:



Well since that wasnt very very subject related ;)
I like the Overhaul of tank morals, so you would not be able to put 20 shield tanks in the door and Moral the attackers down, at least not with Raze.
But still SnB tank has its "Reason for being" with the change SnB Tank's moral would get.

I actually play SM, just rr 40+ and with the gear and setup i run, i mostly need "Distracting Bellow" and since that has changed to M2 i can't run Wings of Heaven.
I Guess that could change with higher RR...

Wings of Heaven is an SC/oRvR ability, not a keep attack/defend ability. And it is a tool to catch up with Shaman/SH run tactic, and it has 60s cooldown. Iplayed destro on life and here, there are some order skills that are shitty to play against... But the pounce Moral of SM was never a Problem.

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Parallell86
Posts: 63

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#95 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:42 pm

bctakhy wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:52 pm
WeGotThis wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:58 am
bctakhy wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:41 am
Btw, now order gets one more pull, where is destro morale pounce? :>
Good idea, Choppa pull all 20s, SM pull would be M4,
so it would be fair to make SH pounce M4 too...

This ignorance in a Feedback topic, i shouldn't care but some people believe what's written here.
So don't Troll arround. Plz

What u talking about? Order have 3 puller with this change (WL, eng and SM) destro have also 3 (mara, magus and choppa)
But order have 3 pounce (WL, SW and SM) where destro only have 1 (SH)... Im the ignorance? Im the troll? Think again...
Where is the order aoe morale drain?
Where is the order aoe corp debuff tactic?
Where is the order aoe undefendable punt, with no immunity trigger?
Self morale pump tactics (order 1 - destro 2)

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Parallell86
Posts: 63

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#96 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:48 pm

Luuca wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:34 pm
Parallell86 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:04 pm
Off-topic
Spoiler:
Luuca wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:51 pm


It's only a first pass. It looks like eventually they will be mirrored. Be patient! Soon BWs on Destro!!!
Ye but I think you are confusing "balancing" with making destro stronger. And currently the BW is not better than the sorc. Where did you get that? They nerfed the BW to the **** ground. If they turned my hypotetical sorc into a BW I would be **** pissed.

The sorc is superior to the BW in every aspect right now.

And no, its not gonna change. Order will never see any Destro abilities unless its something shitty and meaningless just to put out the fire and keep people quiet.

The last year, they done nothing but nerfing order and buffing destro.

- Nerfed Flashfire tactic on BW. Nerfed Wildfire tactic on BW
- Mirrored pounce from WL to melee SH which btw already have the Assault stance effect from SW (insane armor boost).
- Super buffed the WE. The dot tree. The execution abilities. Handed them everything the WH has to make sure they outclass the WH in every aspect.
- Buffed the choppas. (with broken CC, without intention of fixing it. And yes if being pulled through the keep floor is not broken...then everything works fine in comparison)
- Super buffed Black Orcs....dunno where to start. So I wont.

Most interesting:

They wanted to make abilities matching the animations a while ago.
The funny thing is, the magus rift has a 1s animation. The engineer have a 3s animation. So now it takes the engineer 4s to set off the magnet, while it only takes a total of 2s to set off the magus rift.

Homogenized enough for you?

Everything they done so far, have been in Destros favour. When this game was still untouched. Both realms had their ups and downs. Their own strenghts and weaknesses. Now its just all destro.

2010: "hey guys what is a really good class to play?" - "dude play what you enjoy, thats the best class."

2019: "Hey guys what should I play?" - "Black orc, choppa, SH or Zealot."
"I sort of like the BW."
"Then go roll a sorc."
I will not continue the off-topic conversation except to say the devs are doing a great job in incremental steps to balance the game as best they can given the disparity among the classes. You have a grass is always greener mentality and you can't fix bias.

Keep up the great work Devs. Growth is painful. We accept the pain.
I dont care what you wanna discuss or not discuss, fine way of undermining my opinions.

You just silence feedback you dont like, and still pretend this is a community decision.
This **** was gonna go thorugh no matter what. Ofc destro like the changes.

Negative feedback are not feedback? So that means only feedback supporting the changes counts.

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Parallell86
Posts: 63

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#97 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:49 pm

Luuca wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:34 pm
Parallell86 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:04 pm
Off-topic
Spoiler:
Luuca wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:51 pm


It's only a first pass. It looks like eventually they will be mirrored. Be patient! Soon BWs on Destro!!!
Ye but I think you are confusing "balancing" with making destro stronger. And currently the BW is not better than the sorc. Where did you get that? They nerfed the BW to the **** ground. If they turned my hypotetical sorc into a BW I would be **** pissed.

The sorc is superior to the BW in every aspect right now.

And no, its not gonna change. Order will never see any Destro abilities unless its something shitty and meaningless just to put out the fire and keep people quiet.

The last year, they done nothing but nerfing order and buffing destro.

- Nerfed Flashfire tactic on BW. Nerfed Wildfire tactic on BW
- Mirrored pounce from WL to melee SH which btw already have the Assault stance effect from SW (insane armor boost).
- Super buffed the WE. The dot tree. The execution abilities. Handed them everything the WH has to make sure they outclass the WH in every aspect.
- Buffed the choppas. (with broken CC, without intention of fixing it. And yes if being pulled through the keep floor is not broken...then everything works fine in comparison)
- Super buffed Black Orcs....dunno where to start. So I wont.

Most interesting:

They wanted to make abilities matching the animations a while ago.
The funny thing is, the magus rift has a 1s animation. The engineer have a 3s animation. So now it takes the engineer 4s to set off the magnet, while it only takes a total of 2s to set off the magus rift.

Homogenized enough for you?

Everything they done so far, have been in Destros favour. When this game was still untouched. Both realms had their ups and downs. Their own strenghts and weaknesses. Now its just all destro.

2010: "hey guys what is a really good class to play?" - "dude play what you enjoy, thats the best class."

2019: "Hey guys what should I play?" - "Black orc, choppa, SH or Zealot."
"I sort of like the BW."
"Then go roll a sorc."
I will not continue the off-topic conversation except to say the devs are doing a great job in incremental steps to balance the game as best they can given the disparity among the classes. You have a grass is always greener mentality and you can't fix bias.

Keep up the great work Devs. Growth is painful. We accept the pain.
lagg double posted

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Parallell86
Posts: 63

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#98 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:19 pm

BeautfulToad wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 pm
Parallell86 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:24 pm
BeautfulToad wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:51 am


I could not disagree with this more. I think you are assuming a lot:

1. I find M4s - which you are decrying as being game changing - are rarely used outside of seiges (and pve).............
..........then you are doing it wrong. EVERY warband from TUP and FMJ to CNTK and Seventh Legion use them on a regular. Each and every warband have morale compilations for each class. They play a big part in large scale RVR.

Destros most played tanks, Black orc and chosen have self-morale pump tactics, AND THEY USE THEM. Do you know why? Apparently not. Because "no one uses morale outside sieges" right?

And since you play both sides so often, I take it you are a casual PUG. You dont get the same perspective as alot of other players running in cordinated warbands. (guild warbands)

I dare you to join our warband one night and see it from our perspective.
Fine, show me evidence of widespread use of M4 outside of seiges (i dont mean one or two M4s being used, I mean several M4s outside of a seige being used). Solar flare is probably a bit excessive, even within that limitation.

I have characters in those guilds you cite. I am not going to explain myself to you, however. But since we are going to get into specifics and ad-hominem nit-picking. How's this?

I am not even saying you are completely wrong or the changes are perfect. What I am saying is that, firstly, you vastly overrate certain morales (particularly M4s) while underrating others (particuarly pounce on a tank) and, secondly, massively underrate order's tanks. Likewise, you are not really suggesting anything specific except nerf destro more and order less, which suggests you are being biased.

Take one example: You are saying all the destro M3s are being buffed, when all destro damage morales are losing a 5s silence and getting a +1s CD and +300 damage or something (is that a buff?). The only clear buff I can see is to a BG absorb ability, which devs are saying will be to bring it in line with other M3s. You might argue that M3s dont need the extra damage buff to compensate for losing a silence but that is still hardly a massive outrage, and if you really think that will break the precious balance of the game to the point the game is unplayable then you're delusional, trolling or both.
The silence is **** compared to the CD debuff. That debuff screw over you good. The silence is just gonna get bounced off due to immunities. Seriously, would you use a morale on something the sorc can do with a core ability?

And its easy to sit and there and say that destros features are so overrated and order has plenty of features that are better and yada yada. But fact is if someone would suggest handing those very features to order characters, destro community would **** rally on that topic and trash it in 30 seconds.

Funny you would call me biased. This server is destro biased like there is no **** tomorrow. And the fact that you deny it, makes you nothing but a typical destro player. Why would anyone wanna have their glorious RVR days undermined by such facts?

And why is it not obvious when they want to nerf the Knight "No Escape" by 300 damage AND reduce the root by 50%?
Meanwhile buffing a Black Orc M3 from 1200 to 1500 damage. Shouldnt the damage of the **** abilities atleast match??

I dont give a **** what you say, they just keep super-buffing the Black orc and every other destro class while coming up with new ways to make order classes less and less viable.

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 302

Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#99 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:04 pm

Parallell86 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:19 pm


The silence is **** compared to the CD debuff. That debuff screw over you good. The silence is just gonna get bounced off due to immunities. Seriously, would you use a morale on something the sorc can do with a core ability?

And its easy to sit and there and say that destros features are so overrated and order has plenty of features that are better and yada yada. But fact is if someone would suggest handing those very features to order characters, destro community would **** rally on that topic and trash it in 30 seconds.

Funny you would call me biased. This server is destro biased like there is no **** tomorrow. And the fact that you deny it, makes you nothing but a typical destro player. Why would anyone wanna have their glorious RVR days undermined by such facts?

And why is it not obvious when they want to nerf the Knight "No Escape" by 300 damage AND reduce the root by 50%?
Meanwhile buffing a Black Orc M3 from 1200 to 1500 damage. Shouldnt the damage of the **** abilities atleast match??

I dont give a **** what you say, they just keep super-buffing the Black orc and every other destro class while coming up with new ways to make order classes less and less viable.
So you think the Black Orc M3 should not be 1500 damage, and the KotBS should not be reduced by 300 damage.

Can you not just say that without all this aggressive nonsense around it? You do realise destro players constantly say every single order class is OP?

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wargrimnir
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Re: Tank Morale Overhaul Thread v2

Post#100 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:57 pm

People get removed from the BDF not for bad opinions, but because they present their opinions in ways that are aggressive and wildly unproductive. I'm not going to waste time reading feedback that isn't helpful. This isn't a brawl. No one is winning. When there are good points made, it gets considered and discussed, then the next round is tweaked. Nothing has had final approval, and based on the thread so far, it's very unlikely many of these changes are set in stone.
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