Bring it on (Choppa ability)

[Grock]

Only that this skill requires Dual Wield. And the problem is how to make the players also use the great weapon. The answer is simple:

-Choppa Try An' Hurt Me and Sit down,
-Slayer Enervating Blow and Incapacitate,

As abilities which Exhausts your rage will now requires great weapon. I think it makes sense and it is fair.

I am strongly against any additional weapon requirements. It makes very little sense balance-wise (at least in the current state of class skill set) and only further limits build diversity of the class.
And it won't even fix DW vs 2h problem.

We are considering removing the dual-wield requirement for this skill.

This is good news! What about ICD and not proccing on parried attacks? These two are probably the biggest issues
IMO they contradict the concept of the ability (and needs of the class) so much that i'd call them bugs that don't require any discussion.
I think if these two things are fixed this ability could actually become useful (do a degree) and we could do some playtesting before resorting to any bigger changes!

What about a instant cast ability that works like a weaker lashing power? Obviously it's useless for single target focus as the target is random so that's a plus, and its physical damage so it's subject to mitigation and such so it should provide additional damage without being bonkers.

It might make good buff pre wb fight. With all the buffs you might want to pop pre fight it might be a good idea to give it a high ish ap cost so it actually has a little down side. Duration could be as long or short as we like.

This will just be damage output buff, which the class doesn't even need.
And contrary to what you said it will probably be most effective in 1v1 because there's only one target to hit and all damage will get concentrated in it

[Penril]

Those are for you guys to discuss.

[Reesh]

So, the high avoidance version of 100% dodge/disrupt still looks good, as it's easily interruptable so there are easy counters for it.

How do you guys think about snare application, upon enemy being hit as an alternative version?

[TenTonHammer]

How do you guys think about snare application, upon enemy being hit as an alternative version?

Choppa and slayer already have an AoE snare option, and i think MANY players would much rather prefer an avoidance option as is their greatest weakness

[Grock]

So, the high avoidance version of 100% dodge/disrupt still looks good, as it's easily interruptable so there are easy counters for it.

How do you guys think about snare application, upon enemy being hit as an alternative version?

I think 100% avoidance is excessive.
Also i strongly believe if we are doing avoidance then it should have parry as well - all 3 forms of avoidance.

40-50% static parry/dodge/disrupt (unaffected by gear/rr/etc) or 25-35% bonus parry/dodge/disrupt (stacks with gear/rr/etc)

I prefer static version because it will work equally good in either high avoidance or low avoidance builds, adding diversity to the class and making it more interesting to play.

[Toldavf]

I think avoidance is a bad option, slayer already has untouchable and the chopper has dat tickles (not technically avoidance but still prevents allot of damage), both classes also have access to the dps standard m1 confusing movements.

1 vs 1 is irreverent in the balance forum, taking my suggestion into account in a 6 vs 6 you will have zero control on which of the 4 (asuming melee setup) players you hit. I am no wiz with percentages so this math might be off but less then 10% of all abilities that hit you go back as damage to your focus target. So if that is correct the ability is less then reliable in the 6 man scale and would probably not be worth bothering with.

On the larger scale however such as the aoe warband a place where the thing that really counts is how much aoe damage you can put out total, the lack of discriminate targeting is less of an issue.

[Grock]

The reason i want to add avoidance is because players will want to build avoidance to make this ability more useful, so why not put some into it? It will make it equally good in every build! Which is why i also suggest making it unique and not stacking with gear/rr bonuses - to make this ability be less dependant on the build!

Of course we already have morale, but morale isn't always available and its also multiple choices. I think Slayer/Choppa need reliable self-defence tool as core ability... And many of us run around with 50% parry anyway, so whats the difference from numbers i propose? (as non-stacking buff)

in a 6 vs 6 you will have zero control on which of the 4 (asuming melee setup) players you hit

And... do you consider this a good thing? because for me its the opposite
We already have like 4 buffs to use, no need for more. It adds nothing to the class gameplay, almost no player involvement in using it, i dont like that. It could turn out as plain DPS buff to the class which already has enough of that, sort of risky change. It will probably be irrelevant in large scale, but could destroy 1v1.

Plus it is an excessive alteration of vanilla functionality, which we should avoid IMO

About 1v1:

Spoiler:

1v1 is not irrelevant, why would it even be?
It isn't any less important than any other situation. It is fun, it happens all the time (unless you play exclusively in coordinated teams which isn't the case for majority of playerbase). I'm not even talking about solo roaming, just situations like encountering and enemy in RvR lake when moving to your group, or say fighting at postern during keep siege, or getting picked up by ganker while your PUG zerg blindly moves forward

But putting aside all "rework" ideas, guys please comment on the following:

I propose immediate change of few things:
- Do what OP suggested - make ICD proc "per target" rather than "per activation"
- Allow it to proc on parried attacks, as well as ranged/disrupted/dodged attacks like it was on Live originally
- Remove DW requirement because it sucks

These are main issues that prevent this ability from just being used at all, like it litearlly does nothing because of them!
In fact ICD and no parry proc are so contradicting to intended functionality that i would consider them bugs!

This is a minimal change from vanilla functionality and would not require any changes to client/tooltip, i think this is an ideal solution for now!
Later after some playtesting and arrival of client control we can come back and discuss more interesting changes like reduced duration/cd, adding avoidance or some other proc effects (healing, AP restore, etc)

Sorry if im repeating myself too much and thanks for reading

[TenTonHammer]

I dont know if people will put "more" into avoidance, in this day and age by the time you reach T4 no one walks around really with out maxed deft defender

[Skalier]

I dont know if people will put "more" into avoidance, in this day and age by the time you reach T4 no one walks around really with out maxed deft defender

The investment in pairing makes sense because you can get a 50%. But evading not too much because you can get 35%, a good shooter reduces this to 20%. More important is the defense against distance attacks. I think the idea to give a 100% chance of defense is better than improve the statistics you have. The point is that other dps, just do not invest in defense statistics because they have a different defense strategy. They have some skills and shooters are standing far away from their victims. The ones who run with high defense statistics are usually the choppa and slayer.

[Bozzax]

There simply is no use for an ability that is channeled reflect dd on hit.

It just cant kill anything Simply dont hit the choppa/sl and he/she turns irrelevant.

Suggestion:
Change to a channel aoe dd with Increasing damage like Bleed em out so last swing hits rly hard while first merly tickles