[BW] Improving the Single Target capability.

[Reesh]

Identify an issue:
Underperforming of Single Target BWs due to not so recent changes has been known to majority of us. As the game is balanced around group vs group play then well, this class is in it's laughable state. Outside of RvR bombing and targeting solo players, BW is negated in every single aspect.


Explain why it's an issue:
High disrupt rates, drastically decreased damage calculations through guard, ease of cleanse of crucial dots/debuffs nullifies every BW when facing groups. Class has access to one or two basic rotations, and afterwards lacks the "fuel" to keep the damage going through. Before, class was admired by straight upfront damage, whilst the rest of the group provided the crucial utilities that BW lacks, like reliable heal debuff, cc, stat decreasers.
Currently, it's out of the role - as high damage has huge trouble passing through. Combining that with no followup tools after rotation makes the class extinct in ST regard. Additionally, incineration tree on it's own without the dot tree addition is weak, thus forcing only one build as ST dps.

Propose a viable solution to the problem:
In order to increase viability of incineration tree and commitment to it I propose to change the dead skill and tactic duo, which is:
- Burning iron - deal x corp damage while removing 50ap from target. 1s cast, 20s cd.
Its damage tooltip is way too low, lower then seer. Even if you are running the ignition tactic (that reduces target corp resist), damage is still less then average, combining that with absurdly high cooldown, makes this skill dead in my eyes.
- Draining burn - Tactic, that increases Burnings iron tooltip up on par with Seer, whilst restoring 50ap to yourself.
Well, that's lacking, a true dead tactic. There's no justification to run it. Cooldown stays the same, a slight damage increase each 20s is not worth it.

Now, the new changes I propose:
Solution 1:
- Burning iron is now an Ailment, that lasts 15s, has a 30s cd. It's now a DoT (damage portion stays), that in its base form cause target to lose 10% disrupt chance.
- Draining burn - The tactic now says: Burning Iron while casted adds 15% disrupt strikethrough to you. Disrupt strikethrough affects only incineration tree.

Now the addition of the tactic twists things a bit. It improves the ability to hit with somewhat stationary and long casting spells of Incineration tree.
Counterplays: It can be disrupted (most often that will happen), cleansed, losing LoS (when you see that significant debuff on you). With a 30s cooldown that is still leaves a small uptime of it, additionally when regarding those simple counterplays.

Solution 2:
Burning iron is now a 15 point ability in incineration tree. It is now a self buff that lasts 15s, 30s cd, can be shattered that says:
Each time an enemy disrupts your direct damaging skill from incineration tree, his disrupt chance will be decreased by 3%, and your disrupt strikethrough by 5%. Effect can be stacked up to 3 times for a total decrease of 10% disrupt chance, and increase of disrupt strikethrough by 15%. Effect cannot be cleansed. Disrupt strikethrough affects only incineration tree

The burning head M4 is swapped into Immolation tree, and Wall of Fire M4 from there is now a core M4. Placing burning head as core moral, or into conflagration tree would be too dangerous to the overall RvR and AoE balance.
By placing it up to 15 point, it closes a lot of choices, even for a 70rr player. You can't have everything, or majority of skills that one wants. You need to invest into it and change your playstyle.

In order for it to work it requires a disrupt from direct damaging skill of incineration tree. That is still a big drawback, especially when skills are either hard casted, or have significant enough cooldowns - FBB 13s, Nova 10s.
Flashfire helps, but it isn't up permanently. In order to get flashfire procs you need to "search" for disrupts that you need at this moment, so by spamming fluff AoE skills like detonate, one tick of RoF, Choking Smoke. By doing so you're not the dps that pressurizes the enemy, but plays a small minigame of "lets proc that as often as I can while not killing people".
Also there's huge drawback by doing so, staying in 80ft range, stationary, leaves the BW to all kind of typical shenanigans, of mara doing two steps forward and pulling, snaring from SH, getting nuked by other rdps, staggered by zealot or magus etc etc.
One that could potentially rise the stacks fast is fireball barrage, it strikes 3 times. When lucky (or unlucky I'd say), it may provide stacks quick. But, as written above, 80ft range makes you super vulnerable.

First version of the proposal had a few more tweaks, but after discussion it was too much. Thanks for reading.

[peterthepan3]

Open for discussion. Will be locked in TWO WEEKS from now (30th April).

In terms of raw DPS, I do not feel the BW needs a buff in any shape or form. Having said that, I decided to open this proposal for debate because I feel an argument could possibly be made for Solution 2, in particular, in helping BW overcome disrupt issues - while requiring a hefty investment (15pts) - and it would require a tango between attacker and the attacked, i.e. being disrupted before gaining the strikethrough %, so you wouldn't gain access to the buff from the get-go.

Keep the discussion relevant to OP. I am sure other skills for other classes could have similar arguments made for them, so go make them in the form of a proposal.

[dansari]

Personally think this would make an already strong incineration tree even better. Also I'm not sure if it succeeds in its purpose to make BW group viable since you activate a buff that you still have to build toward and only lasts 15s, as per solution 2. I do like looking at burning iron just not sure this helps bw in the right ways

[Toldavf]

Solution one seems like a better withered soul, with a tactic to make all the direct damage skills pretty much undefendable for the majority of classes, with just 5% strike through from gear people will be down to their base disrupt as provided by class and willpower.

Solution 2 seems like a janky play style "fireball barrage to build stacks then rotate" It's basically a second mechanic that results in the same indefensability as the previous solution, except it would stack with pierce defenses.

As for being shatterable. that's kinda meh but not really a problem.

I don't really see a problem with people getting the defensive renown that they speced for, atm we are in a dodge/disrupt meta but these levels have always existed in ror since renown was a thing. I guess what i am trying to say is that we shouldn't make changes to bw because a community got sick of being nuked, wised up and started taking action to prevent it.

[Reesh]

except it would stack with pierce defenses.

PD doesn't affect disrupt.

[Toldavf]

except it would stack with pierce defenses.

PD doesn't affect disrupt.

Ha so it doesn't memory isn't what it used to be XD

[suran67]

I like your idea to make burning Iron a useful spell, but only in concept, not particularly how. Because if you are Doug it in a incineration heavy spec, there are already tools designed around getting disrupted. Specifically how effective flashfire and burn through can be together for single target. And to much disrupt strike through will negate those abilities.
I personally love being heavily invested in inceneration it’s far superior single target than IMMO. Treating all your skills as single target abilities( essentially fireball barrage) and “fishing” for disrupts are what is fun about it; still has the group capabilities but as long as you can maintain distance (which I think is BW’s true issue) you can succeed . I hardly cast fireball unless it’s on a flash fire proc. Also moving burning head would seriously depress me. As it currently gives a reliable morale 4 to actually build towards.

[predathore]

Spoiler:

BW doesn't need a DPS buff. Buffing the DPS would mean they'd have to nerf other aspects (like range for example) to keep it balanced.

OP isn't asking for a DPS buff. He's asking for a means of facilitating to application of damage. There already exists some options to deal with disrupt on the BW, so it is up to you guys to give constructive feedback on whether BW needs another option or not.

I even mentioned above that I do not believe the BW needs a damage buff.

Let's at least read the proposal first, shall we? - ptp3

[Acidic]

Fixing one class for disrupts should be excluded. Disrupt is a game mechanic and should not be handled separately fo BW/Soc or Sw ..
These threads all have the same justification and root cause and therefore the root cause should be discussed (has been) and so justification along such a broad disrupts argument should already be addressed in the disrupt thread.
Individual tactics which are now redundant or practically useless obviously are something else.

[peterthepan3]

Spoiler:

To the best of my knowledge, there is no intention to revert the changes to disrupt, hence why I am pushing for discussions that can perhaps help magical classes in the form of disrupt strikethrough/disrupt reduction. I only pushed this because Proposal 2, i.e. a hefty investment for 15 points, would be a case of having to invest fully in the tree (so no low-hanging fruit) in order to tackle with disrupt. Similar reason to the Daemonic Withering proposal (taking up a tactic slot, affecting 1 DoT on a 20 sec CD).

I've gone off on a tangent, and will spoiler this, but felt it prudent I reply to the above.