working as intended

[Ysaran]

Since you say so, I dare to ask: do you stack toughness or armor on you shammy?

I use full renown toughness, because otherwise the base toughness in vanq is like 150. With buff I am slightly above 500 tou.
I use 6x armor talismans. As I am no pimp with thousands of gold, I can only afford 124 ones, which results in almost 2800 armor or 63% mitigation.

Oh s**t. At what address I should send my car?

[Sulorie]

Do better what? Their tooltip damage and armor penetration is higher? This post is about maths, not about gamesense or skill. haha ok wont respond to troll posts anymore... Your class is imbalanced and the only class that can actually get close to killing it is an asawell imbalanced tonsofarmor-penetrating and huge mobility-having WL.

With this mindset you will never improve. You will only sit there, typing in advice chat, how OP everyone else is. Don't see a troll attempt in every comment.

You attack someone with 63% armor without debuff and only have around 450 ballistic (= reduced by toughness) and get detaunted on top of it. You think your WS stacking does the trick? It does not. You most likely even lose more dmg by not capping ballistic than you gain by additional penetration. You have to debuff armor to do any meaningful damage. Additionally, your damage will always be lower on someone stacking armor but even then there are stacking armor debuffs available in a team-fight.

[jasonX]

Man, surely this game rely a lot on stat and math, but it also require some skill: reflexes, time sense, rotation composition, target choice, positioning and else. This skill change from player to player and they are the balance needle between good player and bad player. Go out of you comfort! if you play wb go play 6man or vice versa! Try to change class for a bit to see what are your enemy's weapon and so on. You game life will change in better.

Dude i can assure you that i solo and small scale a lot . From the official till now. Trying to switch this conversation to skill and gamesense is irrelevant thats why I do not reply with arguments trying to protect my skill level or so. There is a clear problem here. SWs are rendered useless by defensive stat stacking since our armor penetration and tooltip damage is a joke compared to all other classes. Do you agree with that statement or not?

[peterthepan3]

Ask zeromancer for tips.

[Ysaran]

Man, surely this game rely a lot on stat and math, but it also require some skill: reflexes, time sense, rotation composition, target choice, positioning and else. This skill change from player to player and they are the balance needle between good player and bad player. Go out of you comfort! if you play wb go play 6man or vice versa! Try to change class for a bit to see what are your enemy's weapon and so on. You game life will change in better.

Dude i can assure you that i solo and small scale a lot . From the official till now. Trying to switch this conversation to skill and gamesense is irrelevant thats why I do not reply with arguments trying to protect my skill level or so. There is a clear problem here. SWs are rendered useless by defensive stat stacking since our armor penetration and tooltip damage is a joke compared to all other classes. Do you agree with that statement or not?

As I said before: if you play mainly small scale then try the big one, go out of you comfort zone, open your mind.
I haven't the competence to judge if you tooltip damage is right or not.
I, as a Mdps, can only say that not capping you offensive main stat (Ballistic Skill) is the first step to ruin; as said before by Sulorie. Moreover to attack detounted enemy is a waste of time, just detount yourself too and run away

[Acidic]

More SW cry for buff because they have no clue.
Read the post the shammy write it should help you to understand what the problem is and a clue it’s not the SW class , look for a mirror to find the problem

[Lime]

SWs are rendered useless by defensive stat stacking since our armor penetration and tooltip damage is a joke compared to all other classes. Do you agree with that statement or not?

Assault Shadow Warrior is not a joke and in a proper melee train will run over anyone. One of the scariest dps to get on you due to init/crit exposes and 0 cooldown heal debuffs. I mean the range spec is mediocre maybe but the melee spec is top tier.

[jasonX]

With this mindset you will never improve. You will only sit there, typing in advice chat, how OP everyone else is. Don't see a troll attempt in every comment.

Ok since none seems to get in the trouble of doing some maths to support their theory crafting let me do some maths here to get out of that bro-science loop.

at 930 ballistics I am missing 120 ballistics to the soft cap (1050). Lets see how that extra ballistics affects the SFA damage.
With 930 ballistics SFA deals 626 dmg
With 1050 ballistics SFA deals 660 dmg

boosting 120 ballistics can easily happen by switching from WS talismans to BS talismans. That means i will be loosing 120 weaponskill
With my current 719 WS i got 51.4% armor penetration
Now lets see. -120 WS is 719-120=599 WS. I managed to get 594 WS for the trial and i got 42.4% armor penetration

As our friendly shammy told us he can easily go to 2800 armor and around 64% mitigation with some cheap-sh%t tallismans

SO lets do the sum up
Case 1, capped ballistics at 1050 with SFA dealing 660 dmg and 594 WS reaching 42.4% ARMOR penetration

2800 armor * (1-42.4%)= 1613 armor remaining. 1654 armor is 37.6% mitigation so we are around 37.4% with 1613.
SFA will deal 660*(1-37.4%)= 413 dmg (350dmg if you take into account 500 toughness)


Case 2 with my "dumb build at 930 Ballistics with SFA dealing 626 dmg and 719 WS having 51.4% armor penetration
2800 armor * (1-51.4%) = 1361 armor, 1380 armor is 31.4% mitigation so 1361 is around 31.2% mitigation
SFA will deal 626*(1-31.2%)= 430 dmg (362dmg if you take into account 500 toughness)

If you include enemy toughness (around 500 as stated by the shammy) the formula gets a bit more complicated but the damage output difference is almost the same with weaponskill stacking having a slight advantage over the capped ballistics.

So now consider that only cloth armor have such little armor. Weaponskill stacking gains more damage on medium and heavy armored targets.

So
Point 1, capping ballistics in the expense of weaponskill doesnt give you more damage in this occasion

Point 2, Even without detaunt dealing 350-362 dmg with an 1second cast skill ON JUST CLOTH ARMOR is pure trash.....

Your honor, I rest my case.

[madmalky2014]

SW were nerfed for the simple they were far too many destro tanks. We know how destro love thier tanks and they are blatant bias toward destro on this server. Maybe not deliberate but destro are the master of moaning relentlessly till the devs cave in to thier constant whinging. Ignore the whingers and let people play the class the way it should not destroy it to appease the arch whingers.

[Ysaran]

With this mindset you will never improve. You will only sit there, typing in advice chat, how OP everyone else is. Don't see a troll attempt in every comment.

Ok since none seems to get in the trouble of doing some maths to support their theory crafting let me do some maths here to get out of that bro-science loop.

at 930 ballistics I am missing 120 ballistics to the soft cap (1050). Lets see how that extra ballistics affects the SFA damage.
With 930 ballistics SFA deals 626 dmg
With 1050 ballistics SFA deals 660 dmg

boosting 120 ballistics can easily happen by switching from WS talismans to BS talismans. That means i will be loosing 120 weaponskill
With my current 719 WS i got 51.4% armor penetration
Now lets see. -120 WS is 719-120=599 WS. I managed to get 594 WS for the trial and i got 42.4% armor penetration

As our friendly shammy told us he can easily go to 2800 armor and around 64% mitigation with some cheap-sh%t tallismans

SO lets do the sum up
Case 1, capped ballistics at 1050 with SFA dealing 660 dmg and 594 WS reaching 42.4% ARMOR penetration

2800 armor * (1-42.4%)= 1613 armor remaining. 1654 armor is 37.6% mitigation so we are around 37.4% with 1613.
SFA will deal 660*(1-37.4%)= 413 dmg (350dmg if you take into account 500 toughness)


Case 2 with my "dumb build at 930 Ballistics with SFA dealing 626 dmg and 719 WS having 51.4% armor penetration
2800 armor * (1-51.4%) = 1361 armor, 1380 armor is 31.4% mitigation so 1361 is around 31.2% mitigation
SFA will deal 626*(1-31.2%)= 430 dmg (362dmg if you take into account 500 toughness)

If you include enemy toughness (around 500 as stated by the shammy) the formula gets a bit more complicated but the damage output difference is almost the same with weaponskill stacking having a slight advantage over the capped ballistics.

So now consider that only cloth armor have such little armor. Weaponskill stacking gains more damage on medium and heavy armored targets.

So
Point 1, capping ballistics in the expense of weaponskill doesnt give you more damage in this occasion

Point 2, Even without detaunt dealing 350-362 dmg with an 1second cast skill ON JUST CLOTH ARMOR is pure trash.....

Your honor, I rest my case.

How have you applied toughness mitigation to you calculation? It's not clear to me