Patch Notes 04/01/2020

[Caffeine]

Witch elf
- On your knees morale drain and gain changed to 125 125. (down from 300 300).

Witch hunters
- Dragon Guns morale drain and gain changed to 125 125. (down from 300 300).

I would keep the drain component at 200 but remove the pump completely. This would leave warbands a tool to play the morale game on their own terms but remove the absurd pumping potential.

[horrigan]

any chance you will do a dmg spiritual for slayer?

You know how they tell kids in school there are no bad questions? That's a lie.

same as "we change for the better" or saying "we mirror class" as in the case of knight and chosen

[navis]

Very surprised about the Fortress reversion. While both systems have merit I found the open system has the best system for stage 2 it's stage 3 was usually (mostly) non-existant.
The main negative point I see with this change is concerning the 'flow' and feel of rvr, which will be interrupted by the forced instancing... although it will undoubtedly provide a less zerg-y atmosphere...

[wargrimnir]

Very surprised about the Fortress reversion. While both systems have merit I found the open system has the best system for stage 2 it's stage 3 was usually (mostly) non-existant.
The main negative point I see with this change is concerning the 'flow' and feel of rvr, which will be interrupted by the forced instancing... although it will undoubtedly provide a less zerg-y atmosphere...

I explained it a little better here.

Basically, the open fort gave us a chance to improve large scale performance issues, but 700 people in a fort zone has never worked, and we're happy with how many we can likely fit in there now. We plan to expand the total number of people in the fort to the largest number possible before performance issues kick in, but we're going to do it in stages.

[Lithenir]

any chance you will do a dmg spiritual for slayer?

You know how they tell kids in school there are no bad questions? That's a lie.

same as "we change for the better" or saying "we mirror class" as in the case of knight and chosen

Totally mirroring classes would be the absolutely worst for this game. I hope this never happens

[Ekundu01]

Very surprised about the Fortress reversion. While both systems have merit I found the open system has the best system for stage 2 it's stage 3 was usually (mostly) non-existant.
The main negative point I see with this change is concerning the 'flow' and feel of rvr, which will be interrupted by the forced instancing... although it will undoubtedly provide a less zerg-y atmosphere...

I explained it a little better here.

Basically, the open fort gave us a chance to improve large scale performance issues, but 700 people in a fort zone has never worked, and we're happy with how many we can likely fit in there now. We plan to expand the total number of people in the fort to the largest number possible before performance issues kick in, but we're going to do it in stages.

Not sure if this is possible but maybe while fort is going on it opens a SC for players to que into similar to the city siege sc that opens while players are fighting in the city. It could award one random person at the end of it 1 invader medal. Something for people to do if they couldn't get in?

[Jastojan]

And Order gets more nerf as usual. Nothing to see here. RIP Kotbs.

here we go... all players are blind when it comes to "their" fraction...
No matter how strong is your class compared to the opposite class. No matter how strong is your side. When you see your side is getting to be more optimized to get fractions more balanced, it is HUGE nerf in your eyes. I played destro mostly and my chars were nerfed many times... Mara, SH... should I cry now?

I quit playing this game because of few reasons (toxicity and behaviour of few (one especially) highest ranked players, some big changes like aoe cap, forts, etc.) but I was thinking about going back to the game... but I cant do it because, yes, there is an imbalance in this game and players will ALWAYS complain and I cant go through it (I had time to think about it and see it clearer and when you see GMs playing one side mostly, it could make you feel... not very happy when you hope there will come some real balance changes in the future). And it was a good decision to quit because I dont want to brake their vision of the game. This game is a gem, but it is not for everyone (like me). As Wargrimmir wrote in this thread - balance changes will bring big wave of hate and it will be realy hard to make decent changes while you (as a dev) are being hated. I hope devs will have patience with all the changes they planned and wish them to have power to make this game much better - I LOVED solo ranked scenarios and it was such a nice idea to make better rewards for win in these rankeds - just example. But I see now, that if I stay and play the game right now, I will become that type of person I never wanted to be. I cant imagine how hard is it to make big decisions here and explain changes to the players etc. So I decide to accept the game as it is and leave it, because it is not for me. That is my point of view.

[Alterkraft]

Witch elf
- On your knees morale drain and gain changed to 125 125. (down from 300 300).

Witch hunters
- Dragon Guns morale drain and gain changed to 125 125. (down from 300 300).

I would keep the drain component at 200 but remove the pump completely. This would leave warbands a tool to play the morale game on their own terms but remove the absurd pumping potential.

Sounds ok.

If you play the blue side atm you literally have no draining potential. Not saying you cannot counter it but it makes for a serious imbalance in terms of how powerful instant damage is. Sorc self pump+shatter, mara drain+GF, BO selfpump+DB, I can go on. This should seriously be looked at.

That or I'm totally in favor of a complete overhaul of all the morals (especially instant damage). Cause it makes no sense atm. Especially since people discovered you can basically keep morals at zero with 2-3 maras while still having all the undefendable damage and just dragging the fight out. This coincides with the target cap at 24 which makes it even easier (I'm actually in favor of this cap but I can see serious problems with it) especially in 24v24.

[convexte]

Witch elf
- On your knees morale drain and gain changed to 125 125. (down from 300 300).

Witch hunters
- Dragon Guns morale drain and gain changed to 125 125. (down from 300 300).

I would keep the drain component at 200 but remove the pump completely. This would leave warbands a tool to play the morale game on their own terms but remove the absurd pumping potential.

This.
Order completely lost their tools to counter destro morale play in open rvr.
2/3 of destro tanks have morale selfpump tactic, while order tanks has nothing like this.I mean chosens can easily reach m2 reducing dmg (like in 15 seconds), then start rotation on order dps dealers while destro dps and borks gathering dmg morales (sorcs m2, mara m2, bork m3 with silence) and just bomb.Order has nothing against this right now, cause even bork self-pump is better than wh drain right now, while mara can just drain anything in 30ft just using his 2 aoe dps buttons.Balanced.

Mirroring is bad ofc, then take dmg M2 back from sorcs maybe?

[zumos2]

If you ever wonder why we don't touch balance for months at a time, this thread is a great example. It brings out the worst in people posting on the forums. Imagine if we actually started making large changes.

While it is true that with any change there will always be some people annoyed, you also need to be self-critical when you make some poor changes, in this case to the Kotbs/Chosen. Where I can understand the argumentation behind the WE/WH changes, the changes to Kotbs/Chosen just made them both worse for no reason. As nerfing Kotbs/Chosen was not your argumentation and therefor I believe not your goal. That makes me wonder which people from the team are now responsible for making balance changes? And to whom do they listen for advice? Having a small group of players from both sides and both small and large scale environment to just fire away your ideas before spending your free time implementing them could be helpful. It doesn't mean they decide what happens, but having a first round of detailled and respectful feedback is better than just throwing your ideas online on the server and getting a shitstorm on the forums.