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Mara Proposal

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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
Foofmonger
Posts: 524

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#101 » Thu May 14, 2020 4:37 pm

normanis wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 3:47 pm
Foofmonger wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 3:35 pm
normanis wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 3:25 pm

well than i am 100% sure someone will make proposals make brute tree great again .
p.s why should i even stance dance if i have all coockies in 1 stance?
Thunderous Blow already doesn't require a stance. What are you talking about man? Moving TB placement in the mastery path doesn't change anything about how a Mara stance dances, it just allows Mara builds to dip into 5 for Savagery and get something out of it, instead of the current reality in which you go 11+ points in Savagery or you go 0. It opens up "build diversity", and that's about it, it has 0 impact on "stance dancing".

So for context here, how about you go look at the SW mastery paths, and tell me how many 9 and 13 point abilities in the SW trees are "stanceless"? Cause I can tell you the answer is 0. All of the mastery abilities that do not require a stance, happen to be 5 point abilities! Just like TB used to be, and just like the change I proposed....

So again, what are you trying to say?
so i am playing monstro tree all time , and i skiped crit damage for wounds debuff. what is 5 points. so drink tons potions (triple i have seen) and just solo roam around rvr lakes in mosntro stance and kill ppl faster than before . 100 wounds is very strong for so low abilitie = wp has 9 points and its only 60 wounds buff. i dont mention free wounds debuff from choosen what is 79 ( on my chosen and u run ressit auras anyway) so why give 1 more free wounds debuff? for realm who already have tons of tham.
thunderous blow should require savagery hand if its 5 points if its 11 points than it should be free no hand requirement
slayer has 9p wounds debuff and need 2h ,
p.s destro already have 3 pulls vs order 2 pulls , if mara get his wound sback it mean again 3 wounds debuff vs 2 ( order need 2h use vs free destro)

here is about sw. see stance dance or stay in 1 stance dont have all good coockies in 1 build. like it was before when eye shot was core. if thunderous blow go 5 points i whant eye shot core :D
fell the weak = scout
festering arrow =scout
croscut =assault
exploit weaknese =assault
eye shot =skirm
shadow sting = should be 5 points byt because poor squig have it 9 so sw also has it 9
barrage = skirm
there is some abilities what dont require stance dance byt mostly noone took tham because there is better abilities where u need put points
I just don't agree with almost anything you said. But I will say this, I'm 100% ok with eye shot being core again. In fact, I'll say this "eye shot should be core". Also using SW's as a baseline for a balance discussion is asinine. We all know that SW's have significant issues, are one of the weakest classes in the game, and need some changes. Why screw the Marauder class over because the SW isn't balancd well? Both classes should be balanced. I'd be happy for the SW to get buffs and changes to make it more viable and to free up more abilities. Barrage shouldn't require any stance for instance, etc.. I'm happy to discuss buffing the SW, but I have no interest in saying "the Marauder should suck because the SW sucks".

But no, Marauder's don't have "all cookies in one build", and you clearly didn't play or don't remember when TB was 5 points, it was not "overpowered", and worked that way on live for about 4 years. Changing it back to the way it was with the current gear on this server is basically a tiny QOL change and that's about it, it would hardly impact anything.

Example: You say you want to "run around as Monstro", while having the wounds debuff and good damage. You can't do that. Here is an example for reference (let's use real examples instead of hypotheticals): https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... mt=5217&t=

This is the hypothetical build you are referencing that the proposed changes would open up. As you can see, to get Thunderous Blows, that means you need to give up Mutated Aggressors 25% damage buff, which will obviously reduce your AoE damage. It is still a "give and take", but what it allows is for Marauder's to actually have more viable specs. As of right now, there is no point to spec a single point in Savagery unless you are going at least 11 or 13 points into Savagery, which just makes no sense.

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normanis
Posts: 1305
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Re: Mara Proposal

Post#102 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:11 pm

Foofmonger wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 4:37 pm
normanis wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 3:47 pm
Foofmonger wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 3:35 pm

Thunderous Blow already doesn't require a stance. What are you talking about man? Moving TB placement in the mastery path doesn't change anything about how a Mara stance dances, it just allows Mara builds to dip into 5 for Savagery and get something out of it, instead of the current reality in which you go 11+ points in Savagery or you go 0. It opens up "build diversity", and that's about it, it has 0 impact on "stance dancing".

So for context here, how about you go look at the SW mastery paths, and tell me how many 9 and 13 point abilities in the SW trees are "stanceless"? Cause I can tell you the answer is 0. All of the mastery abilities that do not require a stance, happen to be 5 point abilities! Just like TB used to be, and just like the change I proposed....

So again, what are you trying to say?
so i am playing monstro tree all time , and i skiped crit damage for wounds debuff. what is 5 points. so drink tons potions (triple i have seen) and just solo roam around rvr lakes in mosntro stance and kill ppl faster than before . 100 wounds is very strong for so low abilitie = wp has 9 points and its only 60 wounds buff. i dont mention free wounds debuff from choosen what is 79 ( on my chosen and u run ressit auras anyway) so why give 1 more free wounds debuff? for realm who already have tons of tham.
thunderous blow should require savagery hand if its 5 points if its 11 points than it should be free no hand requirement
slayer has 9p wounds debuff and need 2h ,
p.s destro already have 3 pulls vs order 2 pulls , if mara get his wound sback it mean again 3 wounds debuff vs 2 ( order need 2h use vs free destro)

here is about sw. see stance dance or stay in 1 stance dont have all good coockies in 1 build. like it was before when eye shot was core. if thunderous blow go 5 points i whant eye shot core :D
fell the weak = scout
festering arrow =scout
croscut =assault
exploit weaknese =assault
eye shot =skirm
shadow sting = should be 5 points byt because poor squig have it 9 so sw also has it 9
barrage = skirm
there is some abilities what dont require stance dance byt mostly noone took tham because there is better abilities where u need put points
I just don't agree with almost anything you said. But I will say this, I'm 100% ok with eye shot being core again. In fact, I'll say this "eye shot should be core". Also using SW's as a baseline for a balance discussion is asinine. We all know that SW's have significant issues, are one of the weakest classes in the game, and need some changes. Why screw the Marauder class over because the SW isn't balancd well? Both classes should be balanced. I'd be happy for the SW to get buffs and changes to make it more viable and to free up more abilities. Barrage shouldn't require any stance for instance, etc.. I'm happy to discuss buffing the SW, but I have no interest in saying "the Marauder should suck because the SW sucks".

But no, Marauder's don't have "all cookies in one build", and you clearly didn't play or don't remember when TB was 5 points, it was not "overpowered", and worked that way on live for about 4 years. Changing it back to the way it was with the current gear on this server is basically a tiny QOL change and that's about it, it would hardly impact anything.

Example: You say you want to "run around as Monstro", while having the wounds debuff and good damage. You can't do that. Here is an example for reference (let's use real examples instead of hypotheticals): https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... mt=5217&t=

This is the hypothetical build you are referencing that the proposed changes would open up. As you can see, to get Thunderous Blows, that means you need to give up Mutated Aggressors 25% damage buff, which will obviously reduce your AoE damage. It is still a "give and take", but what it allows is for Marauder's to actually have more viable specs. As of right now, there is no point to spec a single point in Savagery unless you are going at least 11 or 13 points into Savagery, which just makes no sense.
well mara get damage boost overall few recent patches back
also pull was broken for some half year or more.
wounds yes is 6k+ if u wear conqueror and up .
byt wounds debuff/buff should be changed overall, for all clases who can debuff or buff wounds to balance game , not just 1 class and rest clases skiped. make kobs shield and 2h can debuff wounds same amount as chosen and make slayer dualwield also can use wounds debuff ( to skip rampage or id) than ok for revert thunderous blow back where he belongs and based of how far it in tree. byt 5 skill point shouldnt be 100 debuff byt maby 80 wounds debuff ( higer in tree better damage and rest ****)
p.s rampege should be higher in tree than it is 5p ( too powerfull abilitie to be so low)
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

jughurta69
Posts: 113

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#103 » Tue May 19, 2020 8:52 am

Putting the debuff takes care of Mara on all forms of heal as on the live

Because there is no stun or silence. Its only weapon is possibly an interruption but difficult to calibrate on Slayer and WP dps. Buffhead no longer being the icon of the divine rune of restoration or assault.
On roam solo or 2, Mara no cc burst.... In sava / bruta

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wildwindblows
Posts: 423

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#104 » Tue May 19, 2020 9:09 am

jughurta69 wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 8:52 am Putting the debuff takes care of Mara on all forms of heal as on the live

Because there is no stun or silence. Its only weapon is possibly an interruption but difficult to calibrate on Slayer and WP dps. Buffhead no longer being the icon of the divine rune of restoration or assault.
On roam solo or 2, Mara no cc burst.... In sava / bruta
Mara has slience skill name as Death Grip but it don't hit any damage. The issue is mara's suffer with low parry. I agree with you Mara's best build is sav/brut and this build has no cc and brust so i think mara need old tb and pb back.

jughurta69
Posts: 113

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#105 » Wed May 20, 2020 12:13 pm

Death Grip is a disarm not silence ;)

Hat
Posts: 48

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#106 » Wed May 20, 2020 7:00 pm

normanis wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 12:11 pm well mara get damage boost overall few recent patches back
also pull was broken for some half year or more.
wounds yes is 6k+ if u wear conqueror and up .
The damage buff was barely noticeable, it's around 40-50 extra damage on certain skills at 1050 str. The only skill that got a substantial dps increase is wrecking ball which is a 13pt ability in the aoe tree so it has no relevance on sav/brut builds.

The main issues with mara are:

1) it has no burst / doesn't have the sustained pressure of a choppa in red
2) mara debuffs are made completely redundant by a 2h BG

Nerfing TB from 5 pt to 13 pts is a relic from when the max gear on the server was devastator and the wounds debuff was extremely powerful. Nowadays even dps classes are running around with 700+ wounds so a 100 wounds debuff at this point is barely anything, certainly not worth 13 points of mastery - not to mention that every 2h BG specs for an automatic wounds debuff on crit (which can also be an aoe wounds debuff) and chosen also have a aoe wounds debuff.

So then you have an armor debuff and a 25% heal debuff. Mara's heal debuff is the shittiest heal debuff in the game so not much more needs to be said, and the armor debuff is covered by BG & BO.

So ultimately, why bring mara over a choppa or we for small scale / scs? They do quite a lot more damage and also have real heal debuffs.

jughurta69
Posts: 113

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#107 » Wed May 20, 2020 7:54 pm

hat, personnaly i see defaut class vs mirror class ( crossing WL & SW)

stance revamp , SW have stats and effects are better . knowing that he has less need to change postures

WL & SW melee are burst melee dps

they are self-sufficient and can single-handedly kill a heal on the time of a stun

the mara, can't already because no stun (needs the help of a third party) and no pounce or shadows step .. well we are not elves lol

3 possibilities are available in my opinion

simply return the tactics to their original form. all heals, skills, moral, heal on damage + you will healed
The survival will increase which will justify its absence of burst cc

either give it are trees of origins and the possibilities of sorting specialization with the +2 sov

or pass thunderous in 6 pts remove draining swap put it abilites of lvl and put a mono stun in 14pt


Ps if thunderous blow change to 4 of course with its original debuff without the current nerf
, tri spé same WL on 70+2

WL currently
https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... mm=&mt=&t=

pounce , debuff armor , stun , cull the weak

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... mt=5217&t=


thunderous, debuff armor, stun , guillotine

jughurta69
Posts: 113

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#108 » Fri May 22, 2020 4:15 pm

the mara can have almost the same burst as the WL. How about trying (a few weeks)

Put thunderous in 4pt and put it back to its debuff on the live not nerfed as currently

the wl with the flight time of the pounce puts force opportunity at the same second which creates the burst (cure impossible, or thunderous is treatable), stun, cut the weak (guillotine)

citation not me " Post#85 » Sun May 17, 2020 2:55 pm
Always the same speeches for 2 years.

We will answer you
- Do not compare the classes between them...
- You do not know how to play !
- Find a team or a guild"

The same for order

give back to the mara, its original heal tactics debuff
As well as its debuff wound and position in the original tree

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Hat
Posts: 48

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#109 » Fri May 22, 2020 4:38 pm

jughurta69 wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 4:15 pm the mara can have almost the same burst as the WL
As someone that has played mara and wl extensively, "no".

jughurta69
Posts: 113

Re: Mara Proposal

Post#110 » Fri May 22, 2020 6:46 pm

yes if the tree and debuff original get here
dev give for test 3 week and see if is good or not

but original thunderous blows debuff 1k600 full tree , 1k450+ middle tree + damage +aa

real good burst on light armor 1450 debuff, + damage + aa
mini - 3000 hp instant

tri spé is good spé for mara . WL have good tri spé 70+2 and no mara

ps i have a mara

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