Patch Notes 10/06/2020 - Happy Birthday

[Manatikik]

Flame arrow was reported to not be scaling with Mastery as intended, which might explain some lack of power. It's not included in the resistance bypass.

Heal debuffs and ranged KD's are both powerful enough effects we considered leaving them both in skirmish range, and then both would have a max range of 65'. However we wanted a swap to get Flame Arrow into Skirmish to consolidate AOE, and those were the two specline candidates for a swap. Eye Shot seemed like it would compliment Scout better as part of a rotation and being able to potentially timestamp someone with the KD in the middle to prevent them from reacting at range. It also already had a cast time, which fits the Scout theme better than Shadow Sting (being instant cast).

The range nerf from changing Powerful Draw is what makes it an actual skirmish spec, and not a second Scout spec that's more mobile. Super unfortunate that was one of the things that didn't get implemented correctly in the first place. If we were to add range back to it, most of the skirmish changes would need to be reverted as well. That's the core trade-off for buffs that was made. It also really didn't fit what the word "Skirmish" tends to mean, getting into brief exchanges with the enemy and being able to retreat while inflicting damage. Mostly it cannibalized the Scout role, by being equally safe while having better tools and mobility. The inherent risk to Skirmish is that you are operating at close range and need to have your kiting skills honed to make the best of the powerful tools that are included in the spec.

We will continue to gather data and see how the class performs over the coming weeks.

Biggest issue with this line of reasoning (for Shadow Sting, anyways) is that to play Skirmish you take PD which already limits your range to the 65' intended range-playstyle thing you guys want; so limiting SS to 65' only hurts the Scout spec and their long range play style that the majority of these (ST) changes were directed towards.

[cursedflesh]

word "Skirmish" tends to mean, getting into brief exchanges with the enemy and being able to retreat while inflicting damage

this would make perfect sense if we could shoot behind us while running away, shooting force us to run in angle, so we stay behind a little and get snacked

[M4r10]

You need to sort out your calculation for the fort numbers because this is not 75%

[Kaelang]

You need to sort out your calculation for the fort numbers because this is not 75%

We're aware. Forts are notorious for not playing nicely. Will be investigated.

[Orontes]

The tactic Enchanted Arrows used to apply its resistance removal to booth Flame Arrow and Festering Arrow. With Flame Arrow now part of the Skirmish Mastery line, this has been removed so it only affects Festering Arrow. Fell the Weak when used when Vengeful does Spirit damage. What about applying the Enchanted Arrows' resistance bypass, to Fell the Weak if used while Vengeful?

[wargrimnir]

The tactic Enchanted Arrows used to apply its resistance removal to booth Flame Arrow and Festering Arrow. With Flame Arrow now part of the Skirmish Mastery line, this has been removed so it only affects Festering Arrow. Fell the Weak when used when Vengeful does Spirit damage. What about applying the Enchanted Arrows' resistance bypass, to Fell the Weak if used while Vengeful?

That should be possible, I'll bring it up.

[RombTider]

thanks to all the people who are plaing in this game

[Ugle]

I'll beat the dead horse some more and hope for some changes to the current implemantation of the SW changes;

First off, hats off to trying to fix the issues of the viability of the SW in different environments. (WB environment mainly) That is higly appreciated.

however

What you seem to want to achieve (reading wargrims replies) have had several unfortunate consequences.

The Pros:

Scout specc is more viable, mainly due to how the changes supports the playstyle. but in addition; glass arrow, triple stacking BA the base dmg increase of scout skills, moving and increasing range on eye shot and making it accesible for more diversity in builds.

Assaut specc benefits from a lot of the changes; glass arrow, guerilla training (gap closer, build diversity), triple stacking BA, crosscut while vengeful, expolit weakness while vengeful

Skirm specc increases warband viability but kills smallscale/roam capabilities due to removal of cast on the move of eye shot, inconsistent ranges across the skills (SS, removal of flame arrow

The cons:

The effective consequences (to my experience) is as follows:

Cookie cutter scout/skirm spec with glass arrow and BA triple stacking makes it a monster 1 on 1 (not a balancing factor yes yes, but still degrades the playing experience for everyone affected)

For larger player encounters (RVR, SCs) it enables (buildup dots) RKD, FA, FTW (rapid fire if not enough) a no counterplay experience for enemies, not especially fun for anyone.

For WB play the aoe damage is lacking for what you give up (range and tactics), and WBs are still better off applying guard to more effective damage dealers. The only effective playstyle is rvr zerg surfing for contribution to forts (yay) but at a higher risk than before (have to stay inside all enemies stagger, pull and cc ranges)

So in my opinion the approach chosen have been overly complex for what you want to achieve, with too many negative consequences in regards of playstyle (subjective ofc), applying 3 BAs (hope for no cleanse), spam some dmg finish with FTW/Rapid fire with lolGlass arrow damage ( a skill that either require a change of effectiveness with certain abilities or a nerf, the latter would make it useless) feels as a huge playstyle degradation compared to previously (even though killing power have increased)

A constructive comment on the skills changed:

Scout Tree

Reworked - Glass Arrow - Toggle Buff, while active: abilities deal an additional 50-250 Physical damage, but cost 15 more AP per use.
A good change in terms of damage output, while harder to balance and affects specs not really needing it while also requiring no brain to use (toggle on) . The same effect could be retained by buffing damage on skills needing it and/or applying vengeful dependencies to effectiveness (to make it somewhat more player skill dependant)
Reworked - Guerrilla Training - After switching stance your action point costs are reduced by 25% and your movement speed is increased by 20% for 5s
The best change IMO, opens up diversity, kiting capability, ap management, gap closer, while it affect the spec not really needing any buffs, it comes at the cost of a tactic slot, so its a spec choice)
Updated - Acid Arrow - remove stance requirement. This can now be used from any stance.
Qol change, not important imo, this was no hindrance previously, the problem was effectiveness and no cast on the move for skirm (an ok spec choice consequence imo)
Updated - Enchanted Arrows no longer affects Flame Arrow
Ok, a direct nerf, somewhat mitigated by buff to dmg on flame arrow, still of no consequence imo, so why?
Updated - Increased base damage of Fell the Weak, Acid Arrow, Throat Shot, and Eye Shot to match Eagle Eye.
Buff, needed
Moved - Move Glass Arrow to Scout Core
The intention is clear, the implementation is flawed imo, see comment above
Moved - Move Eye Shot from Skirmish 5pt to Scout 5pt, remove stance requirement, remove buildup while moving, 100' range
The intention is clear, lowering to 5 pt req is good, the effective cost of removal of cast on the move is a bigger nerf all in all, in effective build diversity


Skirmish Tree

Reworked - Split Arrows tactic - Spiral Fletched Arrows and Broadhead Arrows now hit all enemies within 20' of your initial target, but their range is reduced to 65'
An ok change, while damage is still to low to matter, BA takes forever to apply for effectiveness, AOE range is small, range nerf consequences explained above, could achieve same effect by removing dmg reduction from SFA, it is still at the cost of a tactic slot, so would in no way be OP.
Reworked - Powerful Draw tactic - Skirmish abilities penetrate 25% armor.
25% armor penetration at the cost of a tactic slot (usually would be +20% crit and to be crit on crit tactic, so not worth it all in all)
Updated - Spiral Fletched Arrows base range increased to 100'
Direct consequence of removing old PD Tactic
Updated - Broadhead Arrows - Now stacks up to 3 times and base range increased to 100'
Why? Better increase damage on BA itself if needed, without the above mentioned negative consewquences, allthough I did not feel this skill needed a buff in the first place
Updated - Keen Arrowheads tactic - remove Eye Shot duration, add Flame Arrow duration increased to 15s
Why? will never be used by anyone
Updated - Lileaths Arrow - Now has a 5 second cooldown
ok, but why?
Moved - Move Barrage to 13pt, reduce cooldown to 5s
good change, but again a consequence of other changes to skirm skill reallocation
Moved - Move Flame Arrow from Scout Core to Skirmish 5pt, swap Scout stance requirement with Skirmish stance, increase primary stat multiplier by 20%, range 65'
I see the purpose to concentrate aoe in skirm spec, but imo not necessary if other changes were implemented "correctly")


Assault Tree

Updated - Brutal Slash - swap Scout with Skirmish requirement
Ok, see the purpose of making the transition of skirm/assault from a gameplay perspective, but really not necessary as this skill will hit less than a wet noodle in skirm
Updated - Sweeping Slash - add Skirmish requirement
Ok, see the purpose of making the transition of skirm/assault from a gameplay perspective, but really not necessary as this skill will hit less than a wet noodle in skirm


Core abilities/Tactics

Reworked - Steady Aim - Toggle Buff, while active: Cast time buildup takes an additional 1s, but you gain 25% bonus critical damage.
Increased build time kills it, will never be used outside of Festerbomb, like before
Updated - Hunters Fervor - Changed 20% AP regen to 5 AP regen per second
Good change, qol

Vengeance of Nagarythe

Several abilities now have a "While Vengeful" modifier below

- Scout
Fell the Weak - deals spirit damage
Ok, might want to align magic damage on all abilities?
Festering Arrow - undefendable
Ok change from SWs perspective, bad for everyone else and the gameplay in general
Eye Shot - cooldown reduced by 10s
Ok, usually immunities makes this a non-issue both ways

- Skirmish
Barrage - removes 100 morale from targets **
Ok change, CD reduction capabilities required the morale reduction from 250, np
Shadow Sting - undefendable
ok, not sure why this was deemed necessary
Flame Arrow - increase radius by 10'
ok, but problem of flame arrow described above

- Assault
Exploit Weakness - cooldown reduced by 10s
not needed
Crosscut - hits an additional time
really not needed

If it is so that all these rather unneccesary changes blocks necessary changes I hope they will be reverted

All in all for the general fun of gameplay and games health (SH changes inc) I hope most of these changes gets reverted.

[Omegus]

Have any instances been reported to be ever lasting fights so far, as that would maybe be my biggest concirn if no "win conditions" without the pre-patch moraledrops can be created.

Dachosen vs Fenryl round #163546 in IC recently was like this. Both sides scoring kills but each stage was just one endless fight due to piss-weak morales. Fights between these 2 warbands are generally drawn-out with Fenryl scoring more kills due to order having a better single target melee train but unable to collapse the warband unless they get a drop off, while Dachosen's WB gets less kills but is very durable and recovers from losses very quickly and also needs morale drops to add enough damage to the AOE pressure it puts out. 2 factions, 2 different play styles (ST vs AOE), pretty equal score against each other in cities and pre-patch unless one WB ended up being full of poor players (it happens) both sides needed morale drops to win a fight.

Good premades will still roll over crap ones with or without the changes (as I keep saying, most of the time the bad warband has lost the fight when morales come up and dropping morale is just finishing things quickly), while this change just made it harder for good warbands to close up a fight. I'm sure pre-patch the people in https://i.imgur.com/m7LdPvZ.jpg would believe they lost due to morale bombs. Not sure what the excuse will be now (yes the AM was DPS, as was the other AM cut off the screen).

I was surprised that fort pushes were still working fine, although that might be because destro were pushing a 5 star IC and everyone was thirsty for some crests (I'm not saying some order were throwing, but they were jumping down out of res LOS just as stage 1 was ending...)

[anarchypark]

Flame arrow was reported to not be scaling with Mastery as intended, which might explain some lack of power. It's not included in the resistance bypass.

Heal debuffs and ranged KD's are both powerful enough effects we considered leaving them both in skirmish range, and then both would have a max range of 65'. However we wanted a swap to get Flame Arrow into Skirmish to consolidate AOE, and those were the two specline candidates for a swap. Eye Shot seemed like it would compliment Scout better as part of a rotation and being able to potentially timestamp someone with the KD in the middle to prevent them from reacting at range. It also already had a cast time, which fits the Scout theme better than Shadow Sting (being instant cast).

The range nerf from changing Powerful Draw is what makes it an actual skirmish spec, and not a second Scout spec that's more mobile. Super unfortunate that was one of the things that didn't get implemented correctly in the first place. If we were to add range back to it, most of the skirmish changes would need to be reverted as well. That's the core trade-off for buffs that was made. It also really didn't fit what the word "Skirmish" tends to mean, getting into brief exchanges with the enemy and being able to retreat while inflicting damage. Mostly it cannibalized the Scout role, by being equally safe while having better tools and mobility. The inherent risk to Skirmish is that you are operating at close range and need to have your kiting skills honed to make the best of the powerful tools that are included in the spec.

We will continue to gather data and see how the class performs over the coming weeks.

Biggest issue with this line of reasoning (for Shadow Sting, anyways) is that to play Skirmish you take PD which already limits your range to the 65' intended range-playstyle thing you guys want; so limiting SS to 65' only hurts the Scout spec and their long range play style that the majority of these (ST) changes were directed towards.

as a scout SW, HD is not main tool.
i gave up PD long time ago.
and adapted 65ft HD, leaving perma HD job to skirmishers.
1 shadow sting at right moment is enough.

there's no time to waste on skirmish skills.
festering, acid, eagle, rapid for casting. glass, broad, sting, flame, weak for instant. it's 2/9. waste of tactic for scout.

not much to add than kite better, memories range.
this noob SW been doing it fine. surely many elite SW gonna have no problem doing so.
if they like risky thrill.