WL DMG Screenshot

[badoglio]

One day son
One day even slayer 2h will be feared like this and people will open nerf posts about them
just a little more
just
a little

[M0rw47h]

One day son
One day even slayer 2h will be feared like this and people will open nerf posts about them
just a little more
just
a little

Pouncing slayer inc.

Spoiler:

[sogeou]

The only thing about WL that doesn’t make sense is why they have more burst than WH/WE. That never made sense to me, and my main character is a WL.

I’ve recently started to play Destro to try new classes, and holy ****. WH are a joke, but I get destroyed by WL in seconds. Coming from playing Order characters, I never feared a DPS from Destro like I do WL (specially as RDPS and heals). Destro doesn’t have any class that can do what WL does. Same can be said for Marauder on Destro side, but I think people tend to hate WL more because they melt people while Marauder is more of WB utility class.

Good post. Again highlighting the burst imbalance between Order and Destro. I am not sure why people play WHs but I do for WEs. Destro only has 2 burst classes... Sorc if want a ranged burst class and WE if you want the melee burst class. Will be interesting to potentially get one with the incoming rSH/mSH changes.

Melee SH have wayyyyyyyy more burst than any other class on destro only a slight second to WL's. Why are you not adding them on that list?

[Manatikik]

Sadly its not the wl himself right now , sovereign buffed him realy hard , op class atm would be the new range sw ^^ , but i know what you mean , big problem is rly sovereign gear atm rly hard to kill some specific wl's now for me on my witch elf since sovereign is out

You do realize the single largest upgrade in Sov gear was for WH/WE, right? It's insanely well stat'd and has +15% Crit damage, its ridiculously good.

[satanicomoderno]

Oh no! WL makes damage and kill destro healers babies! Lets nerf this! HOw come an Order classe kill anything!?

If you're dying for WL the problem is you, not the class. Learn to play and then you won't die like you're crying.

[doxifera]

This circus lasts for more than two years, how much has been written about this - WL needs a nerf, no one speaks about nerf to the ground, at least cut the DMG by 20% and remove the pounces or pull (too much for one class)

[Foofmonger]

That kind of damage output with a face rolling on a keyboard (listen to the random smacking) is not skill and it's not balanced. But there is hope, when well known WL's come into this thread and affirm that it is indeed overpowered. But the statement that should be paid attention to most is this:

"Coming from playing Order characters, I never feared a DPS from Destro like I do WL (specially as RDPS and heals). Destro doesn’t have any class that can do what WL does. Same can be said for Marauder on Destro side, but I think people tend to hate WL more because they melt people while Marauder is more of WB utility class."

Honestly, Mara burst damage isn't terrible, just the vast majority of Mara's dont spec for it and don't use the burst rotation. Not as good as a WLs but it's not bad whatsoever.

The issue between WL and Mara isn't really damage, it's mobility, and it's not just between the WL and Mara, but between the 4 way mirror (SW/SH/Mara/WL) if we look at these classes, there is exactly only 1 that doesn't have a "pounce or teleport" and that class is the Mara.

The reality is that WL damage and burst is good but not because of the actual damage, many classes can do similar things. Their burst is good because of how reliably they can "apply" that burst. I might want to go attack a half heath WP on my Marauder who is say, 60ft away. As a Marauder, I have to either charge up to them, try to pull them (which will take a minimum of 3 seconds and likely fail and do nothing), or just run at them slowly. A MSH/ASW/WL does not have to do any of that, they can go see the target, click their teleport/jump and start bursting, which is why they are scary, because they can reliably "apply" their burst when and where they want it.

If Marauder's had shadowstep, it would go a long way to balancing this 4 way mirror. Unfortunately, it also might be a bit overpowered if not implemented correctly, so there is also some nuance here. It may need to be stance locked or something.

[Foofmonger]

This circus lasts for more than two years, how much has been written about this - WL needs a nerf, no one speaks about nerf to the ground, at least cut the DMG by 20% and remove the pounces or pull (too much for one class)

WLs had pounce and pull from 2008, so 12 years, and honestly, they had both when they were underpowered, so that is just not the issue. We have direct evidence that WLs can be balanced with pounce/pull and "it's not too much for one class".

WLs actually seem pretty fine on this server to me. It's basically the rest of the MDPS that is lagging, besides Slayer. WE/WHs just have huge identity issues at the moment, Marauder's are good at AoE spam but they lack mobility so nobody plays their burst specs, Choppas have some overall utility issues outside of leaning on GTDC. The reality is not that "WL are OP" it's that "WLs and Slayers are currently the only two MDPS classes that can really do the job of MDPS on this server and are actually scary, with the * that the same applies somewhat to AoE Maras/Choppas, but not to the same degree).

Regardless, this thread is a joke in an of itself. The only thing this thread proves is that the OP needs to learn to play his shaman. Secrets posted the clip from his viewpoint and yea, that shaman deserved to die with his complete lack of situational awareness, the fact that this was a 2 on 1 fight and he didn't even acknolwdge the SW who was shooting at him, the fact that he didn't detaunt at all, that he got jumped on without panning his camera or attacking the WL (Secrets), etc... this just proves that yes, if you are a complete ass player who is putting in 0 effort and get jumped on by a 2v1 from two dps classes that know what they are doing, you will die. Wow what a shocking revelation. I could have done the same thing to a crappy DPS AM on my Marauder, heck you could do the same thing to a crappy DPS AM on a Sorc, a Choppa, a "insert class here". Looks like if you don't detaunt, don't kite, dont heal yourself, don't pan your camera, and have the reaction speed of a dying tortoise you probably won't have a good time playing a DPS healer.

[Illuminati]

The only thing about WL that doesn’t make sense is why they have more burst than WH/WE. That never made sense to me, and my main character is a WL.

I’ve recently started to play Destro to try new classes, and holy ****. WH are a joke, but I get destroyed by WL in seconds. Coming from playing Order characters, I never feared a DPS from Destro like I do WL (specially as RDPS and heals). Destro doesn’t have any class that can do what WL does. Same can be said for Marauder on Destro side, but I think people tend to hate WL more because they melt people while Marauder is more of WB utility class.

Good post. Again highlighting the burst imbalance between Order and Destro. I am not sure why people play WHs but I do for WEs. Destro only has 2 burst classes... Sorc if want a ranged burst class and WE if you want the melee burst class. Will be interesting to potentially get one with the incoming rSH/mSH changes.

Melee SH have wayyyyyyyy more burst than any other class on destro only a slight second to WL's. Why are you not adding them on that list?

You must mean when the pet is out (Get Em / Leonine Frenzy). You can't run the pet in WBs (dies to AoE, etc. hence my proposed improvements), or in 6v6. Only viable roaming and in dungeons. If they fix the pet issues I would add it in as a Destro burst class. My Choppa does more burst ST and I wouldn't classify it as a ST burst class. Both my Choppa / mSH are BIS so am not theory crafting here.

There is a difference ST and its not small. For both to get a target to 50% is similar in timing (though WLs is faster with the 2H and Pounce hitting for much more), the real difference is the execute sub 50%, armor debuff (Shred, etc.), and the GCDs you get while a victim is floating slowly in the air. The mSH can jump in, KD for 3 secs and that's it without the opponent doing stuff.

WE is the only real burst Melee on destro and not as good as a WL (no charge, less survivable, etc.).

[Orkschnitzel182]

This circus lasts for more than two years, how much has been written about this - WL needs a nerf, no one speaks about nerf to the ground, at least cut the DMG by 20% and remove the pounces or pull (too much for one class)

WLs had pounce and pull from 2008, so 12 years, and honestly, they had both when they were underpowered, so that is just not the issue. We have direct evidence that WLs can be balanced with pounce/pull and "it's not too much for one class".

WLs actually seem pretty fine on this server to me. It's basically the rest of the MDPS that is lagging, besides Slayer. WE/WHs just have huge identity issues at the moment, Marauder's are good at AoE spam but they lack mobility so nobody plays their burst specs, Choppas have some overall utility issues outside of leaning on GTDC. The reality is not that "WL are OP" it's that "WLs and Slayers are currently the only two MDPS classes that can really do the job of MDPS on this server and are actually scary, with the * that the same applies somewhat to AoE Maras/Choppas, but not to the same degree).

Regardless, this thread is a joke in an of itself. The only thing this thread proves is that the OP needs to learn to play his shaman. Secrets posted the clip from his viewpoint and yea, that shaman deserved to die with his complete lack of situational awareness, the fact that this was a 2 on 1 fight and he didn't even acknolwdge the SW who was shooting at him, the fact that he didn't detaunt at all, that he got jumped on without panning his camera or attacking the WL (Secrets), etc... this just proves that yes, if you are a complete ass player who is putting in 0 effort and get jumped on by a 2v1 from two dps classes that know what they are doing, you will die. Wow what a shocking revelation. I could have done the same thing to a crappy DPS AM on my Marauder, heck you could do the same thing to a crappy DPS AM on a Sorc, a Choppa, a "insert class here". Looks like if you don't detaunt, don't kite, dont heal yourself, don't pan your camera, and have the reaction speed of a dying tortoise you probably won't have a good time playing a DPS healer.

The wl was in my back so i got jumped/pulled and stunned.
I died in the stun you can acutally see in the Chat that i got stunned.
I think we can close this thread, all i want to Do is Show numbers of burst a wl can do.

@secrets: yes you were 3 people but i counted your dmg so the numbers are right.
If the sw used a skill that pumps your dmg than a apologies because i dont know all the sw skills.
But thx for the Video i acutally Shows that i if you dont See the wl so you can detaunt bubble etc that there isnt a lot to do because you get bursted realy Hard.

I would also like to mention what i wrote in my first post.
Dont nerf it to oblivion just a bit.