City Winner History?

[nat3s]

Things won't get better until BW and Engi are less prevalent for Order such that other meta comps, such as their incredibly strong melee train, see a bit more use imo. They need to ditch the 1 dimensional persistence with only running BW deathballs.

They could as well buf engis to the Olymp and nerf all mellees to make a balance.

Just do something, people will tell the game is Destro-Dominated and at some point there will not be much Order left.

Sure, you could buff Engi and Magus, that would make for a meta shake up which I'd be down with as neither class is terribly viable, you need 1 at most per organised WB.

Not sure the devs are with you on that though, they've actively pushed to maintain the meta status quo. Sorc, BW, WL, Mara, Slayer, Choppa continue to be, as they were on live, some of the best classes in WB play. Only recent meta change was to bring Mara back in from the cold.

I'd honestly like a big shake up in the meta, it brings back theory crafting WB composition, gets people playing other classes which extends their stay here and helps those players who aren't seeing many organised WBs, such as Engi/Magus, enjoy the game again. Depends what the aim is here though, to honour the design of live or to experiment a bit... Both have their benefits right

[nuadarstark]

Ok, I get that in devs opinion, this could be very easily solved by everyone just playing meta. I get it, it's a fix that requires no work at all from their side, I'd probably recommend it too if I was in their place (very limited resources).

The thing is, saying "roll only these 6 classes of 12 if you want to do well in endgame" is not something that will ever work, or even sit well with the playerbase. Especially if the other side has more viable classes for endgame. There is a reason why there are so many of SWs, BWs, Engis and WHs and "lower tier classes"...they're iconic, fun classes that people love.

I always find it a bit grating to hear the devs saying this is a mentality issue, that the class balance is good, that not all classes need to work for all content types and that gatekeeping half of the faction population for cities is fine. For the overwhelming majority of classes in conventional specs, Sov/Warlord is the BiS, the endgame gear though. And it's locked behind cities, a content that as we just saw in the discussion is not meant to support half of the order classes per the devs, with no other way to obtain it without grinding oRvR bags for months. With only alternative (and a worse one at that) being the ranked scenario set that is well...locked behind even more of a joke content type in itself. Is it really that hard to see how ridiculous that is? Why even have 24 classes at that point? When progression for half of them is gonna end with Inv/Oppressor/PvE?

I personally could give a flying f**k about who wins or doesn't win cities, who pushes more, who has the better gear or premades. In the end it's all gonna have to work itself out naturally with Destro supporting Order more by xrealming more, otherwise they won't have anyone to fight. They'll have plenty people to farm, but I know a lot of destro players well enough to know that endlessly rolling over useless Order pugs and farming 1 star dorf all the time is not all that fun in long term. It gets old pretty quick without any sort of challenge. What I do want is that more people can trully enjoy the game like I do, to get to finish the gear progression like I did (I'm lucky enough to have started the game with a meta class and meta spec).

[Krulgu]

is 06/22 and destro have 80 % aao in all map all the day ..... you can made an board for show this too or is only for order whine ??

[nuadarstark]

is 06/22 and destro have 80 % aao in all map all the day ..... you can made an board for show this too or is only for order whine ??

Do we really need to point out here that the population numbers for both factions vary massively when it comes to different timezones? I thought that has been discussed to death here, even in regards to cities, organisation, etc.

Again, most of the discussion here has been pretty thoughtful and measured, from both sides, so what's up with this order whining/destro bitching thing? Do you really have to troll that hard, can't be even jsut a moment without it?

[Kaelang]

Spoiler:

Seeing this post is like seeing someone come out with info on the Clintons. Its been nice knowing you. Too bad about the coming ban. lol

Avoiding the political reference here, but addressing the ideology.

Staff don’t suspend people for compiling data that is seemingly useful. Surprisingly enough, if more people collected data and compiled it in a sufficient way, to present to the team, as opposed to screaming ‘FIX THIS’ whilst pouring salt everywhere - more results tend to follow.

I’m not saying this information will be actioned upon, but it’s a start in regards to the efforts the community are beginning to make in an attempt at driving the development on the server in a more streamlined direction.

Data will always trump empty cries and ‘I’m gonna leave’ threats.

I am not a game developer, so my view might be a bit off. But always thought that statistics would be an important part of balancing and polishing the mechanics in games. Therefore I thought that the statistics of city wins would be one of many things that get used to see if there is a missbalance between order and destro, that needs to be addressed. Your post is giving me the impression that this isn't the case. Which confuses me quite a bit.
Did I just missunderstand you or how does the team determine if there need to be changes made?

You misinterpreted. I’m saying yes to more data from the community.

[emiliorv]

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=39333&start=50

The thing is, you only have 4 tactic slots and both classes have more than 4 that are good. DOK can slot something else.

you mean, DoK dont have that CORE tactic wich mostly wp use and can slot something else (worse ofc) => sure, when you dont have a uber tactic can slot "something else". But having "something else" (wich wp almost have too) dont means that healing output are "equilized" like you are trying to argue...

[Stalkarn]

I have to say something about destro winning in orvr despite being "outnumbered" in the zone. Yesterday I was playing som orvr and ppl where shouting in the region chat that we (order) outnumbered destro, printing some zone info in the chat. Still they pushed us back all the time. Well standing in our wc I can clearly see that ca 20% where just afk in the wc. And a small band constantly spawned the ram shouting that everyone should get to their keep. Did everyone get to the keep? No, only a handfull of ppl got with the ram and then lost to a much more organized destro group.

Destro was way more organized than us order. Ppl just ignored those who tried to rally order in an organized assault. Then there was the bitching in the chat. Felt like kindergarden.
I don't think there is any wrong with the balance, just the players.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

SM CD reducer is vastly inferior to the new one added to BOs (which should be removed from the game), as well as the needlessly-buffed Chop Fasta. This is a HUGE deal for builds/rotations.

And not every WP has Exalted Defenses up all the time, and having +15% heals from the Knight requires you to essentially waste an Aura slot and use up 4 tactic slots across 4 Knights.

DOKs and Chosens don't have access to healing output in this specific form,

but DOKs can easily slot something that raises SE regen/defenses so that their throughput equalizes.

Spoiler:

This is is why you don't see much of a difference in the healing numbers - in fact, DOKs usually do more healed/second because of realm/class synergies.

WP can't spam MB every 8 seconds like a DoK can, for instance, because they don't have practically 80-100% uptime on their CD reducer. Nor can they wipe out all of the enemy's strongest DoTs/debuffs with a single M2, including heal debuffs.

WP have access to the same tactic to regen RF on defense => its exactly the same tactic that DoK (fueled actions for DOK // fueled fury for WP)...so this equalizes nothing.

This guy (WP) on another post say that his wp has exalted defenses 100% up ( i dont play wp so...) :

My WP has 60% disrupt when using the disrupt tactic and I stack it with full conq proc. This makes the 20% more healing proc always up.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=39333&start=50

As a WP running with almost 57% disrupt and Exalted Defenses, I can say that when I want to (and I always want to), I can have the proc on almost all the time. I think that's just a tradeoff between different things in this particular mirror - DoK has it's own great utility like better morales and some very nice abilities WPs don't have. I think that out of all the almost straight up mirrors, the WP/DoK one is one of the most balanced. They each bring their own flavours into mix and they each have a different smallscale viable offspec (DPS DoK, Grace WP).

Are you traying to argue that a perma +20% healing output are justified for a situational grp full cleanse with 1 min CD...a M2 that mostly DoK only use in ORVR/zerg/fort fights, in city instances the usually is running siphon (wich wp have too).

Could you please explain wich "some nice abilities dok have that wp dont"?? you mean the wounds grp buff...oh wait...

Lets be clear: DoK is a good healer but WP is better.

[orillah]

Most destro "players" will defend themselves with all their stamina like they always do in pretty much all topics, claiming wins comes exclusively from their superior skills and extra long "members" that makes them superior in pretty much all city sieges. xD

To be serious, im stopped playing a while ago, but participated in 3-4 city sieges per week from february till late june, and the only time order won overall city score - was the very first siege happened at feb 23(?), that ended in a draw. After that it was 4 month of undisputed destro dominance.

Frankly i win most the instances i participate in, mostly because i always try to find good org wb to join. But still only saw 1 draw in 4-5 monts xD.

[Stalkarn]

Most destro "players" will defend themselves with all their stamina like they always do in pretty much all topics, claiming wins comes exclusively from their superior skills and extra long "members" that makes them superior in pretty much all city sieges. xD

To be serious, im stopped playing a while ago, but participated in 3-4 city sieges per week from february till late june, and the only time order won overall city score - was the very first siege happened at feb 23(?), that ended in a draw. After that it was 4 month of undisputed destro dominance.

Frankly i win most the instances i participate in, mostly because i always try to find good org wb to join. But still only saw 1 draw in 4-5 monts xD.

So, you Do win "exclusively from your superior skills". ^