do we have a balance problem?

[Rasenmeister]

BTW both sides asked for something to be done about forts, and saw the issue on the destro side.

When Destro does good or Order does bad it is a l2p issue apparently. But when Destro does bad and Order does good destro rush to the forums and I will say destro are def better at complaining/whining on the forums.

Order have less good wbs in rvr now.
Destro now have alliance wbs with coordination in not popular time.

I dont see last time many good order wbs in one time - tups, nge, bene and some other.
But i see my guild with coordination with allies


Of course, destro rush forums -
nerf mara
nerf chosen
and many other nerfs - of course, this is destro work

[Sundowner]

We literally said that balance in forts should be looked at or fort system redesigned because it favours some order classes more than destro ones. stop lying.

Also most of "just get orginized" was literal parroting of destro fanboys which responded to city winrate imbalance with only one argument, that sides were completely balanced and order just needed to "get orginized"

Ok. Nerf slayers - when we meet strong melee blob in city - we cant kill it.
Up 2h kotbs as chosens, but delete vigilance and give them opression, as chosen
Nerf all aoe heals.

What else?

made special pve city for crybabies with paper sovereign for apperance

Again, destro with typical nonsense, except probably slayers, because they have too much utility and damage for one class.

I am not saying buff all order nerf all destro. The city winrate distribution we have nowadays is not merely because order has weaker classes and destro has stronger ones. Slayer, Kotbs and BW are better than their "mirrors", but does it affect it? of course if you stack slayers u will win, but, hear me out, being competitive should not be tied to class choice. On the other hand destro has more choice for wb composition and had it for several years probably. When you have only 1 competitive dps class, you are kind of discouraged to form wbs and play organized, because u do not have option, u cannot stack SWs as you can stack mSH, mara has similar dmg to WL but has much more utility, choppa is not that far behind slayer.

City winrate we have now is not direct reason of disbalance between classes, we have this distribution because destro classes on average are more optimized for city playstyle and have been like this for a long time, this discouraged order players to form up, because u loosing anyway and derailed into realmwide attitude towards cities.

Argument that destro players are inherently better and love to organize and order players are PUGs who will lose anyway is stupid. Maybe what we see in cities nowadays are caused by something, which was obvious but for some reason devs never really paid attention and it snowballed into what have we now?

Please, do not say "if you want to win play meta classes, order has slayer blah blah", city is endgame content, more classes should be optimized for it.

[emiliorv]

Plz stop saying that destro stopped to record city wins when start to win.....destro never recorded city wins...for what? Salt mining?

[MMXX43]

When destro players ask month ago - why order win forts, oreder players says - all normal, no disbalance, just be better organized

I want to say - all normal, just be better organized

We literally said that balance in forts should be looked at or fort system redesigned because it favours some order classes more than destro ones. stop lying.

Also most of "just get orginized" was literal parroting of destro fanboys which responded to city winrate imbalance with only one argument, that sides were completely balanced and order just needed to "get orginized"

He is FMJ what did you expect ?

[mubbl]

city balnce now on forum

Order wb -
/5 ppl join city with solo q
roleplay wb with 6 engi join city
overflow wb with 8 WH or rSW

Destro premade -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stHMD5N-KPw

https://imgflip.com/i/4re9va

[sighy]

Spoiler:

We literally said that balance in forts should be looked at or fort system redesigned because it favours some order classes more than destro ones. stop lying.

Also most of "just get orginized" was literal parroting of destro fanboys which responded to city winrate imbalance with only one argument, that sides were completely balanced and order just needed to "get orginized"

Ok. Nerf slayers - when we meet strong melee blob in city - we cant kill it.
Up 2h kotbs as chosens, but delete vigilance and give them opression, as chosen
Nerf all aoe heals.

What else?

made special pve city for crybabies with paper sovereign for apperance

Again, destro with typical nonsense, except probably slayers, because they have too much utility and damage for one class.

I am not saying buff all order nerf all destro. The city winrate distribution we have nowadays is not merely because order has weaker classes and destro has stronger ones. Slayer, Kotbs and BW are better than their "mirrors", but does it affect it? of course if you stack slayers u will win, but, hear me out, being competitive should not be tied to class choice. On the other hand destro has more choice for wb composition and had it for several years probably. When you have only 1 competitive dps class, you are kind of discouraged to form wbs and play organized, because u do not have option, u cannot stack SWs as you can stack mSH, mara has similar dmg to WL but has much more utility, choppa is not that far behind slayer.

City winrate we have now is not direct reason of disbalance between classes, we have this distribution because destro classes on average are more optimized for city playstyle and have been like this for a long time, this discouraged order players to form up, because u loosing anyway and derailed into realmwide attitude towards cities.

Argument that destro players are inherently better and love to organize and order players are PUGs who will lose anyway is stupid. Maybe what we see in cities nowadays are caused by something, which was obvious but for some reason devs never really paid attention and it snowballed into what have we now?

Please, do not say "if you want to win play meta classes, order has slayer blah blah", city is endgame content, more classes should be optimized for it.

Well obviously you can't really stack single target dps, in a heavily aoe favored meta. And tbh i don't see it changing unless the AOE cap gets reversed, which devs made abundantly clear it won't.

BWs and Slayers are clearly the ones who benefit from it the most so there is a huge difference between the coordinated wbs who abuse it and everyone else. Which always made the matchmaking feel like russian rulette.

[Rasenmeister]

Argument that destro players are inherently better and love to organize and order players are PUGs who will lose anyway is stupid. Maybe what we see in cities nowadays are caused by something, which was obvious but for some reason devs never really paid attention and it snowballed into what have we now?

Please, do not say "if you want to win play meta classes, order has slayer blah blah", city is endgame content, more classes should be optimized for it.

Im agree with this
All sides have meta classes for city, and now some classes almost useless in endgame content, if ppl dont play very well

But what have destro versus kotbs, slayers and WP?

snb chosen<snb kotbs
choppa<slayer

And i can say - destro pug lose city absolutly same as order

[Rasenmeister]

He is FMJ what did you expect ?

you have problem with FMJ?

I talk as player, my words - not my guild position.

But i can say - we are not invincible, but we can change orvr situation, when we go to war

[Aurandilaz]

When destro players ask month ago - why order win forts, oreder players says - all normal, no disbalance, just be better organized

I want to say - all normal, just be better organized

We literally said that balance in forts should be looked at or fort system redesigned because it favours some order classes more than destro ones. stop lying.

Also most of "just get orginized" was literal parroting of destro fanboys which responded to city winrate imbalance with only one argument, that sides were completely balanced and order just needed to "get orginized"

He is FMJ what did you expect ?

FMJ who run good organized Destro warbands, but get still occasionally dumpstered by an actually ORGANIZED well-led, "meta" class/specs warband in cities - is more of a legitimate source for balance concerns than random order pugs complaining about losing versus Destro 8-8-8 warbands when those Order heroes queue solo into cities.
We have faced FMJ maybe ~12 times during this year in cities when we played Order - we lost maybe 2? times and won maybe +10 times?
Shouldn't that be a higher balance priority issue than the sufferings of random pug player nr9381 who refuse to get organized for cities and then complain that their 6 WHs suicide squad lost a city again?

[Sponn]

Plz stop saying that destro stopped to record city wins when start to win.....destro never recorded city wins...for what? Salt mining?

Right it was fort and they stopped recording the data once it didn't support their narrative. My b.