AM the undisputed worst healer: A discussion

[taquete]

Tranquility should count willpower as int, and Force should count int as willpower, so there you have a TRUE hybrid class.
EoV distance should be increased or fixed (maybe add a buffer as the target always gets out of distance since its range is so stupidly low)
And please PLEASE lower Blessing of Isha (AoE heal) cast time, 2,5sec is too damn high.

also its worth noticing that another thing shamans have in favor is its height... AMs are like squishy towers.

[kirraha]

You might think to yourself “Hey! AMs aren’t that bad”
Well… Would you rather a WP/RP combo or WP/AM or even RP/AM to which any experienced player will say the former.

You might think AMs get to be the tankiest healer- Well no that would be the WP

You might think AMs get the best group buffs- Well again no… WP get wounds/prayer while RP get stat buff. AMs get a weaker version of a KOTBS aura.

You might think AMs get to have the best AOE heals… Nope that is also WP then RP

You might think AMs get the best ST heals!…. RP again

You might think AMs get a ST Stagger … RP again

You might think AMs get a group HOT or Group Shield… Nope! WP =[

You might think well at least Am/Shammy get to be faster then everyone else… Sorry only shammy

Any sane person by now is asking themselves. “Well why play an AM”
To which I say .. Good question

AMs bring MoM to the group, an amazing ability which can help your party kite entire WBs. It lowers initiative and is great for slowing down funnels.

AMs really aren’t that bad, they just aren’t a better choice than a WP or RP.

There is 2 options to look at to solve this problem.

1. Take some things away from WP and give it to the AM. Whether its the wounds buff or the aoe Shield. This could bring down the WP while bringing up the AM with no direct nerfs to healing in general.

or

2. Lower group heal from 2.5 secs to 2 secs; Make prismatic shield have a 5% chance on being hit to shield target for X dmg and let Ishas encouragement tactic be aoe so it would group cleanse and group hot!

Any ideas open for discussion. Would love some actual ideas to compile for devs to really take a look at … this is hopefully just a jumping point.This was a satirical way to highlight the downfalls of a class, not a complaint. I will continue to play my main (83WP) but have noticed how bad the AM has it while I am leveling one.

I think it's simply that 99.9% of the Am's can't get out the juice from the class.
No offense to you AM's out there, but I just simply think that

But could be fun to add a tactic that makes the aoe AP drain affect your entire party for example. Though dev's alrdy gave this to the IB to make it a little more attractive for wbs, though I rarely see it outside from organized guild wbs, but such it must with playing with pugs mostly. PPl just can't play the game or their classes.

[teiloh]

Tranquility should count willpower as int, and Force should count int as willpower, so there you have a real hybrid class.
EoV distance should be increased or fixed (maybe add a buffer as the target always gets out of distance since its range is so stupidly low)
And please PLEASE lower Blessing of Isha (AoE heal) cast time, 2,5sec is too damn high.

also its worth noticing that another thing shamans have in favor is its height... AMs are like squishy towers.

AM buff patch: AM size reduced by 80% in all dimensions

[BluIzLucky]

I like the mechanic, it's harder to manage than on live, but also feels more useful if done right.
If they add a tactic to switch to use the old mechanic, add maybe a 5% scale per point and consume all points, that would add a whole new play style and since you are giving up 1 tactic slot (which each are crucial to AM imo), it would balance it out more compared to live.

I'd also like to see the Walk Between Worlds, replace the "no setback" with INVISIBILITY!
That would make it more lore friendly and more importantly, make the AM a much less desirable target with a distinct survival style from Shaman, this in turn will let AMs focus on position/mechanic/healing/utility/damage. You'd still be vulnerable to kd -> instant kill if caught out, but would solve the "mobility" issue.

[Arbich]

If I were dev for the day...

1. Define a role

Spoiler:

• WP/DOK: Entry level healer with few buttons to press to get overproportional amounts of healing. Incrediblity forgiving in terms of positioning.
• RP/Zealot: A few more buttons to press but in a pinch you got flash heal to save the day. Uncontested in terms of group utility. Less forgiving in terms of positioning but incredible panic button every 3 min.
• AM/Shaman
  Current role: You better know your **** otherwise you are terrible. If you do, you may break even with other healers.
  Target role: You better know your ****. If you do, you outperform the other healers.

2. Fix the mechanic

Spoiler:

Don't fix things that aren't broken. Current problem for heal AMs is that they cant generate force points outside of EOV while mainting any sort of heal output.
Possible Solution: Return Balance Essence to the experimental version of ages past. This means adding a base healing value and some disrupt strike through. Its basically the version still shown in the career builder https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/career/archmage

3. Swap around abilities

Spoiler:

Path of Isha
Energy of Vaul --> 13 Isha: EOV is the defining healing ability of the class. Having it in another tree just means that there is a large power spike upon acquiring SOV gear while everyone else just kinda sucks.
Funnel Essence --> 5 Isha: Decent spell. Could also go on 9 Isha but I figure Marshes of Madness probably shouldnt sit in 5 Isha.
Magical Infusion --> Core: Alright spell. Moves to Core because space is needed in Isha tree.

Path of Vaul
Law of Gold --> 13 Vaul: Zealot stagger is also 13 point. The silence is a bit worse maybe modify it further
Drain Magic --> 9 Vaul: This will probably piss off the DPS AM. Logic: You need to chose between MoM and AP drain if you play DPS. And best AP drain in the game as core ability? Seriously?
Transfer Magic --> 11 Vaul: Change AOE drain to group AP feed. IMO Excellent idea. Credit to Zumos

Spoiler:

AM has 3 major problems:
- Very reliant on Whispering Winds from SM
- Squishiest Healer in the game
- Does not give AP to group

That said the healing potential of AM is very high, especially with Whispering Winds up. I definitely think some tactics could be designed which would sacrifice healing (AM has some pretty good healing tactics) for either survivability or some way to give the group AP.

An example could be to add a 5s speed proc of 25% to Walk Between Worlds tactic. Or change Drain Magic tactic to drain 92 AP from one target to your whole group.

4. Make stuff useful

Spoiler:

• Apotheosis: Isha's Encouragement should fire on cleanse done by Apotheosis. Its something every new AM tries out anyway only to be inevitably let down because it doesnt work. However, when both tactics are slotted the cleanse should not be affected by cooldown decreasing abilities. Otherwise you will have virtually immortal dps + tank trains running around with 6 groups hots up. All the time. Especially in city.
• Desperation: Add additional hp levels with benefits: Suggestion below 75 % --> 10 % more heal. Below 50 % --> 15 %.
• Golden Aura (7 Point Vaul): Change effect to remove hard CC effects (Stagger, Silence, KD, disarm) upon applying the shield. Maybe also remove snares. Not sure.
• Primatic Shield: Adjust base values and scaling to KOTBS/Chosen aura. Make the effect linger for 5 - 10 seconds after being shattered or add 'charges' so its requires multiple shatters to remove.

5. Whats supposed to happen

Spoiler:

• Access to the class mechanic should lead to quicker cast times on large heals making direct cast time reductions redundant. Enable better performance in burst healing situations if properly played.
• The tree adjustments should smooth the power spike upon acquiring SOV while still adding benefit because the tactics in Path of Vaul are, in my opinion, still valuable.
• AP feed and an improved resistance buff may open up auras for kotbs and tactics for RP. This adds a bit of redundancy where previously was very little. This in itselt probably wont increase build diversity but it could be a first step.
• Group hot with Apotheosis should bring AM up on the healing scoreboards. Should be closely monitored.

6. Not adressed

Spoiler:

• Even with these changes the AM cannot compete with RP in terms of raw group utility. Heal blessing, armor proc, AP feed, selection of buffs, stagger etc. As a trade off the AM should be a bit better at healing when it really matters. Not sure if its worth it though
• All your buffs/heals are enchantments while WP/RP do blessings. Competent opponents will remove them constantly (in small scale) and there is very little you can do about. Also by applying enchantment you open up the blessings of WP/RP to the respective shatters and thus making everyone worse. No easy solution I can think of. Reclassfying buffs to enchantment and heals to blessing could work but would be a rather large adjustment in the database.
• Surviability: I think this is a learn to play issue since I typically dont experience it.

2. the weakness of casted lifetaps is that if they get disrupted you wasted crucial time and one teammember is in serious trouble or dead. The stregth of casted lifetaps is that they are basically instant healcasts (you heal the defensive target when the spell actually hit the enemy). If I knew that balance essence would not be disrupted, I would cast it all the time and just switch between the friendly targets that need the heal most (basically .ab ex mode). If balance essence would only hit say 60% of the time, I would probably never cast it, cause its not worth the risk.
They adressed this "issue" with EoV where the healpart of the spell goes always through. But at least for EoV you need somewhat coordination with a SM (especially considering range to get the WW buff) to make it really good and the shorter castrange give it a risk/reward balance. It makes the AM decent especially in WB play, but its not a super appealing gameplay mode. If you add this effect to balance essence - .ab ex mode - it wont make the gameplay more fun (.ab ex was quite strong, but also kind of boring) and probably too strong. I don´t think you find the sweetspot with added disrupt strikethrough where you almost always hit, but only on some targets.

3. Or you skip funnel essence and get EoV instead. But yes, it makes some sense. But you give up on any rework of penetrating siphon and the general path of vaul tree as life tap tree?
About the path of vaul tree suggestions: Well you have to seriously improve the silence when it has to compete with a ap drain/feed. I would like to hear the ideas behind this.
The zumos idea was bad, imo. It removed somewhat the "offensive" aspect of ap drain (92 instead of 180 on target) for another ap gain for group. Your solution to connect it to a tactic is somewhat better.

4. Apthesis: The no cooldown reduction when both tactics slotted might make it balanced. I think AM has a lot of good balanced tactics that compete with eachother already (apthesis and ishas encouragement are 2 of these), so I don´t see the need in general to work on these tactics.
Desperation: Its the strongest tactic anyway, so buffing this is fine (tactic balance doesnt matter), because you will take it anyway. The "problem" with desperation is that some attacks can remove more than 25% health from target, so the tactic has no chance to be active at all (although with the bigger health pools with the now available better sets this problem is diminished). I would prefer a slightly increase of the percentage when it is active.
Your proposed change sounds quite strong. This alone is probably enough to bring the AM on a equal lvl with the other heals.
Golden Aura: So basically ripping the engi ability (which was never working and is now removed) and give it to AM. This poor dwarfs As it is tied to a tactic, why not? But I guess the devs can´t do this, the only reason I see why they didnt repair the old engi ability (its not that engis are OP...).
Prismatic Shield: Well yeah, I already proposed that AM should get Kobs lvl of resist aura (and kobs resist aura should be downgraded). So I naturally like this idea.

5. Better burst healing could also be adressed with a buff to funnel essence (at least you have a cooldown on the ability). The core question is still what is the likelyhood of balance essence chance to get disrupted or should it work like EoV? Will it be a constant swapping between 1 heal point (healing energy or hot) and balance essence spam (so .ab ex like)? This will dumb down the AM gameplay. Or will it be depended on target selection? Then it will be really hard to find the sweetspot of exactly the right disrupt strikethrough. Like I already said, the core problem of casted lifetaps, especially when you want to use them with a willpower based set.
Do you actually need the +2 points from Sov than anymore? I mean you didnt really come up with an idea for the silence, so with your proposed changes you wont take it anyway. So instead of SoV +2 you will need RR50 to get all the stuff. And then you get 4 points to get some extra goodies.


All in all I find the proposed changes in total too strong (if balance essence works like EoV), while most likely not improving the fun of the class, but actually degrading it. Not like.

I think some smaller changes are enough for AM (and shaman)
1. buff resistance buff ( ), nerf chosen/kobs resistance buff.
2. give tranquility points added strikethrough (not for lifetaps, but for debuffs and CC). Wouldn´t affect dps shaman/AM that much and if you think it does, you could exclude some abilities from this strikethrough buff.

[anarchypark]

I'd also like to see the Walk Between Worlds, replace the "no setback" with INVISIBILITY!
That would make it more lore friendly and more importantly, make the AM a much less desirable target with a distinct survival style from Shaman, this in turn will let AMs focus on position/mechanic/healing/utility/damage. You'd still be vulnerable to kd -> instant kill if caught out, but would solve the "mobility" issue.

Hah! Invisible movement,
something like WE/WH 2sec insta stealth. ofc no skills available.
could be looks like teleport.
pbaoe at the end of cast. just for fun.
even 1 sec would be amazing.
even 0.5 sec to disappear from enemy target.
impressive.
nobody would've dare thought this game breaking idea
though extream cases require extream measures.

[Jildaz]

Alot of interesting and good suggestions. However, I don’t agree that survivability is a l2p issue. Rvr is chaotic and there will always be situations that you cannot predict or plan for. In such situations, having better survivability will always be an asset. If I roam in a duo or trio with my shaman and get jumped by 2 WHs i survive 9 times out of 10. On my (granted worse geared) AM, getting jumped by 2 WEs mean death 9 times out of 10. When I survive it is because I have evertything off cd. It is worth noting that AM deal alot better with a groupmember getting jumped tho. With better gear for sure these numbers will go up but I doubt it will be as good as other healers. The AM has excellent, or at least good, survivability in smaller fights when you don’t get surprised and can prekite and detaunt before kd.

This sum up pretty much everything about balance issue between SHam /AM and WE/WH

2WH Cant kill a sham :

A) WH sucks
B) Shaman is overpowered
C) A + B

2WE kill AM easily :

A) WE overpowered
B) AM sucks
C) A + B
D) its normal that a healer die against 2 dps which role is to kill healers.

IMO any healer, alone, should not be able to survive the Burst of 2 Dps which role is to kill Healers.. I think AM should die against 2WE but Shaman too. And its not L2P issue because the same player had this experience, is he survives 2 WH that mean he knows his stuff and is competent, so he should be able to survive with AM too.

Kiting is a thing, sham are king at kiting, but surviving a KD with 2 dps debuffing both outgoing and ingoing healing is in my opinion not logical.

[emiliorv]

if the lifetap spells (dot+dd) used willpower as primary stat instead of intelligence could make that spells more viable as healer?? by this way will reduce the healing for the dps specs too...

[NSKaneda]

This sum up pretty much everything about balance issue between SHam /AM and WE/WH

2WH Cant kill a sham :

A) WH sucks
B) Shaman is overpowered
C) A + B

2WE kill AM easily :

A) WE overpowered
B) AM sucks
C) A + B
D) its normal that a healer die against 2 dps which role is to kill healers.

IMO any healer, alone, should not be able to survive the Burst of 2 Dps which role is to kill Healers.. I think AM should die against 2WE but Shaman too. And its not L2P issue because the same player had this experience, is he survives 2 WH that mean he knows his stuff and is competent, so he should be able to survive with AM too.

Kiting is a thing, sham are king at kiting, but surviving a KD with 2 dps debuffing both outgoing and ingoing healing is in my opinion not logical.

I've been jumped by 1WH, 2WHs, even a group of 5. My shaman goes down fast even to single WH if he does things by the book. But if all the WHs are doing is hitting 2 attacks constantly not even bothering with CC I can hit absorb, cleanse, hot and kite or fight. If they use more than 3 skills... It's over.


Few days ago Grufrip jumped my severely undergeared AM. I survived. Grufrip is excellent choppa and I can only conclude that he wasn't committed to attack and I was lucky to run absorb-hot-detaunt without interruptions when I was down to 40% HP (in 1.5 seconds)... Few moments later (and 90%hp) WH intervened so choppa's attention was on him.


I'm sorry to say this but majority of order is not using the tools they have at their disposal. My AM and runnie are getting heal debuffed, silenced, hexed, slowed down and knocked down on daily basis. My Zeal and Shammie get this kind of a treatment only once a month at best. It's not OP issue, it's L2P one.

[Aurandilaz]

I wrote these ideas down in last August

Archmage + Shaman

Boon of Isha + Bigger Better n Greener ; allowed to cast these spells when on move

Desperation/Aint Dont Yet -
instead of low 25% remaining HP effect activation, below 50% is enough to enable extra healing. Reduce effect from +40% to +30%

Wild Healing -
after critical heal, you move 20% faster and your abilities cost 20% less AP - 3sec effect, 5s ICD

both of these classes tend to heal less than other healers, for a variety of reasons. AP is not an issue for AM in endgame gear, so changing Wild Healing to something that slightly improve their survivability and allows them to somewhat mimic Shaman survival options, would be something that maybe helps them against being the first to melt renown pinata.
The extra healing for low health targets is nice, but usually just not enough considering low threshold to trigger, and some targets simply vanishing between 25% HP left and a heal firing off. So increasing the trigger condition from 25% to 50%, but in turn reducing the healing modifier down to 30%.
BOI + BBAG are in theory good, but again casting a 2s fragile spell while standing still is rarely a good or safe option. Allowing these to be casted on move would help both classes somewhat.

Would probably tweak numbers bit, like maybe having heal buff be only 25% etc.

Another idea I was thinking of ages ago, would be turning Walking Between the Worlds into a 3-5second "blink vanish" + speed (similar to WH/WE disappear elixir), starting with base of 3s vanish, but with tactic Running Between the Worlds you get 3s of vanish and 5sec of +40% speed buff that does not break on ability use (it costs a tactic slot and still retains 15s cd).
AM is about the only class with no specific survival mechanism, WP/DoK have medium armor and are stupid tanky with fast healing and cannot be AP drained, Zealot/RP can be stupid tanky and have tools like stagger or Winds or racial armor tactic, Shaman can still kite away even with nerfed state of RunAway and double stacking detaunt, AM is the priority focus target because it is the most likely healer to die first when pressured by dps.

Other idea I was toying with was re-making their "static buff", which is currently just another resis buff in age of melee trains.
Change both shaman/Am resis buff into a 120 second ST buff, with 10 sec CD, that gives allied target -50% critical dmg received (mimicking old trivial blows behaviour). WP/DoK covenants remains strong as ever, RP/zealot init debuffs always in demand, sham/AM resis less so - now their buff becomes unique, but instead of 60min fire and forget, 1 AM/sham in theory could keep 12 allies buffed, or 2 to keep 24man wb buffed, etc. (valuies can be tweaked ofc)


I had some other ideas that would remake their whole mechanic into gaining crit chance per point 3-4% (AND +5 critical value modifier per mechanic point held), but having spells cost 5 AP more per mechanic point held, and having chance to be crit rise by 3-4 per point held, but then gaining unique "finishers" that would go from 1k pure heal ( 65ft target + allies within 10ft), to 1k pure dmg blast ( 65ft target + enemies within 10ft), to 750 pure blast + lifetap conversion (hostile target 65ft + friendly target and allies within 10ft)with 3 points equalling 1000, 4 at 1100 and 5 at 1200, and going down to 2 giving 900 and 1 800 etc, modified by career rank and so on (so AM/sham wont oneshot ppl in t1, meaning scaling numbers down if going from cr40 downwards), lifetap going down/up by 50 per point etc). With these finishers locked at ~10 sec cooldown that cannot be altered. (Finisher use drains all points, and depending on need you would weave spell + finisher1 + spell + finisher2 + spell + finisher3... with individual finisher CDs locked at 10sec)
Could apply something like 9target cap to limit the potential of these, or maybe even 6cap, all values can be tweaked.
Still sharing these ideas, but I know they will be mostly ignored as usual so didnt bother starting a new thread of my own.


Shaman ST buff from their healtree, Shrug it Off would become unique +900 woundsbuff for Destro, with 30s uptime and 10s CD.
Am ST buff from their healtree, Magical Infusion, becomes a ST cd reducer buff, with 10s uptime and 30s CD.
(allowing for more potential of CD reductions by having AM + SM combining/rotating cd reduce buffs to allow AM EoV heal potential to mimic potential of Shaman FODG carried by chop/BO cd reduce buffs)


Feel free to copy/borrow these random ramblings... hoping that AM would one day stop being lowest priority pick for warbands/cities.