Anatomy of a Failed Patch

[ravezaar]

Personally I dont play Engi but nerfing there dmg and giving the reason "Engi population was to big" is a complete joke.

If there was a need to do a dmg reduction in some ascpect say so, or make arguments why but dont make pointless un-educated statements.

[Shanell]

when I read here how others enjoy it when a class is broken, I wish them exactly the same. many players have invested thousands of hours in their characters to collect equipment ect.
but if your bw, sorc etc. throws around in the thousands of dots and bolts that is completely ok. you cried over the RSH and achieved nothing. that's where the nerf from engi and magus comes in handy for you. I can't eat as much as I could throw up

What is the point of your post? Gloating over other class being nerfed?

[M0rw47h]

Personally I dont play Engi but nerfing there dmg and giving the reason "Engi population was to big" is a complete joke.

If there was a need to do a dmg reduction in some ascpect say so, or make arguments why but dont make pointless un-educated statements.

"un-educated statements" you can find in your signature

[Shanell]

OP I think you totaly miss the point of "fix".
Engineer population is too big

"We have to many X so we just make them bad!". I just don't want to believe it was a reason.

[Shanell]

Personally I dont play Engi but nerfing there dmg and giving the reason "Engi population was to big" is a complete joke.

If there was a need to do a dmg reduction in some ascpect say so, or make arguments why but dont make pointless un-educated statements.

"un-educated statements" you can find in your signature retard

Lol, butthurt.

[Sundowner]

OP I think you totaly miss the point of "fix".
Engineer population is too big, most of them don't even group or do anything revelant for campaign or organized smallscale (at best they group with other engis) they just hide on top of some hill or wall skipping entire drawback of "low mobility" and pew pew. Personaly I find it very good change, as it doesn't really matter much for any form of organized play where you've to be mobile anyway, unless fighting pugs.

Fixes are required when one class is either overperforming or underperforming, not because people play it a lot.
Yes we already get that you get sniper a lot from engies and cry about it, please don't bring "people shouldn't play a class because it is not relevant in current meta", more classes should be meta, not less.

Also, were engies/magus overpefroming? I honestly want to know the answer, because not in solo/wb/smallscale I did not find them to be broken or as strong as some classes.

[M0rw47h]

OP I think you totaly miss the point of "fix".
Engineer population is too big

"We have to many X so we just make them bad!". I just don't want to believe it was a reason.

Bugfix on "Get'n Smarter" or change to "RUN AWAY!" tactic come to my mind.
I think they both fixed Shammy population a bit. Certainly they weren't made because of 1v1 shaman superiority as 1v1 doesn't really matters.
It's matter of attracting players to playstyle that really isn't supposed to be supported in MMO thats based around group vs group PvP, as its generaly balanced about that.

OP I think you totaly miss the point of "fix".
Engineer population is too big, most of them don't even group or do anything revelant for campaign or organized smallscale (at best they group with other engis) they just hide on top of some hill or wall skipping entire drawback of "low mobility" and pew pew. Personaly I find it very good change, as it doesn't really matter much for any form of organized play where you've to be mobile anyway, unless fighting pugs.

Fixes are required when one class is either overperforming or underperforming, not because people play it a lot.
Yes we already get that you get sniper a lot from engies and cry about it, please don't bring "people shouldn't play a class because it is not relevant in current meta", more classes should be meta, not less.

Also, were engies/magus overpefroming? I honestly want to know the answer, because not in solo/wb/smallscale I did not find them to be broken or as strong as some classes.

Fixes can happen due to many reasons, like class being too appealing for solo players (shaman fixes, read my response to Shanell).
I don't get sniped by anything else than Jurki on regular basis while playing organized, if we count geting sniped on average once per month by same player as "a lot".
I don't base my comments on my solo experience (which happens as well), but it's hard to expect to have stuff balanced around my lets say solo Marauder or <put any class here> roaming.

And yes, I think engi/magus were overperforming in terrain abusing and wall shooting while soloing, compared to rest of rDPS.
Tho, I wouldn't say they were overperforming as rDPS compared to other rDPS because SW or BW in organized group will do much more kills on average than engi.

By terrain abusing and wall shooting I mean bypassing class drawbacks and having only its advantages thus having high rewards with no real risk involved.

[Jastojan]

OP I think you totaly miss the point of "fix".
Engineer population is too big, most of them don't even group or do anything revelant for campaign or organized smallscale (at best they group with other engis) they just hide on top of some hill or wall skipping entire drawback of "low mobility" and pew pew. Personaly I find it very good change, as it doesn't really matter much for any form of organized play where you've to be mobile anyway, unless fighting pugs.

You wrote it doesn't really matter much for any form of organized play - so I REALY do not understand why do you advocate these changes? If it does not affect you and your gameplay anyway, so why? There is a group of people whose gameplay was affected by a lot, but somehow you need to keep them down and it seems you are happy that they cant enjoy it anymore. Every game is much better when you have more options to play it, the variousness, but here it is going to be reduced step by step and is going to force you to play it THIS way (which I find it brings less and less fun). But you said that the MAIN way of gameplay (organized WB) is not affected by these changes, so what was the point of that nerf? Just to reduce variousness of gameplay? Or what?

[M0rw47h]

OP I think you totaly miss the point of "fix".
Engineer population is too big, most of them don't even group or do anything revelant for campaign or organized smallscale (at best they group with other engis) they just hide on top of some hill or wall skipping entire drawback of "low mobility" and pew pew. Personaly I find it very good change, as it doesn't really matter much for any form of organized play where you've to be mobile anyway, unless fighting pugs.

You wrote it doesn't really matter much for any form of organized play - so I REALY do not understand why do you advocate this changes? If it does not affect you and your gameplay anyway, so why? There is a group of people whose gameplay was affected by a lot, but somehow you need to keep them down and it seems you are happy that they cant enjoy it anymore. Every game is much better when you have more options to play it, the variousness, but here it is going to be reduced step by step and is going to force you to play it THIS way (which I find it brings less and less fun). But you said that the MAIN way of gameplay (organized WB) is not affected by these changes, so what was the point of that nerf? Just to reduce variousness of gameplay? Or what?

It's very good question.
Fact that it's not nerf for warband play, doesn't change core of the problem, where you get hordes of solo Engineers and Maguses.
If solo sniping is too effective, too much "fun" and appealing to masses it causes few following problems for entire realm on various levels:

• You get players who don't want to group on regular basis, as they don't need to [except leeching City Siege];
• ^You've too much rDPS compared to mDPS for realm X, which attracted more of those players [hello Order?];
• ^Since they have only "sniper" experience, 95% of them is totaly useless in warband play [City Siege], they don't know how to spec or play;
• ^Unbalanced population, more soloQ instances for order, more free wins for destro in City Siege and so on...

Generaly it's a PvP MMO. Not a solo sniping simulator. Classes should be designed so you want to group, always.
If DPS Shaman was overperforming as solo class, I don't see problems to nerf for same reason solo wall shooters. In a group with assist you still will kill people, despite small loss of dmg and Trivial Blows reducing your burst.

While I still hate rSH range changes, probably the approach of lower range = more damage and burst was right direction to go, as higher risk should give you higher rewards. There is no risk in shooting at people who can't match your range from top of a mountain (so many Bitterstone spots got fixed for a reason) or a oil spot.

[sighy]

TB is fine and it was also fine in Live. Only bad players kept whining about it back in live and it is the same deal here. Spending 45 RPs on renown trainer for %40 crit dmg reduction is not even a good investment at all considering your renown points is limited to 80.

Yeah, no.

If you are even remotely serious about RvR you are going to abuse the hell out of it, because reinvesting from 3FS 4Crithit to 4TB 3Crithit the difference literally is 5% chance to crit, which you can get from liniments, slightly adjusting gear/set bonuses or even simply not slacking on Sentinel Talismans. And even against low crit damage classes it still performs around the average value of FS, while against sorcs it literally guts 25% of their damage output.(Or more if you run onslaught)

It has no counterplay, it has nothing to counter the effect, it is vastly more reliable than FS and it makes healing you vastly easier by normalising incoming damage to average values instead of random spikes. All at the grand cost of 5% chance to crit something.