I like TB on WE...
Specced out FS, perma sacrifice rewarded goes BRRRRrrrrt
Only BW, Sorc and some Mara crying, rest of dps shifted to noncrit-dps long time ago cause of FS stacking.
Trivial Blows Feedback
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Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
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- Posts: 18
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Hi, i just wanted to post a graph to make the discussion more data driven and less about emotions:
It is either FSIV or TBIV
https://imgur.com/5ByjP2J
here is a link to the (scuffed) spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
if somebody finds an error, pls point it out and i will fix it asap
It is either FSIV or TBIV
https://imgur.com/5ByjP2J
here is a link to the (scuffed) spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
if somebody finds an error, pls point it out and i will fix it asap
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
How tf is bw/sorc supposed to spec out of crit damage it's their class mechanic and on most end game gear sets.... !?
Deadulus - and many other Deadul... toons. ~RR 65 casual solo
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- Posts: 492
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Would be even more cool to actually have a real data instead of pointless simulations.Fanaticseb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:27 pm Hi, i just wanted to post a graph to make the discussion more data driven and less about emotions:
It is either FSIV or TBIV
https://imgur.com/5ByjP2J
here is a link to the (scuffed) spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
if somebody finds an error, pls point it out and i will fix it asap
But that would require some actual searching for combat formulas and stuff.
Nice try tho.
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- Posts: 18
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
I mean there could be errors in how the game handles randomness in general, but if your dataset is big enough it should resemble something like this graph, right? Data could prove or disprove this formulation, but at least it is a starting point.nocturnalguest wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:39 pmWould be even more cool to actually have a real data instead of pointless simulations.Fanaticseb wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:27 pm Hi, i just wanted to post a graph to make the discussion more data driven and less about emotions:
It is either FSIV or TBIV
https://imgur.com/5ByjP2J
here is a link to the (scuffed) spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
if somebody finds an error, pls point it out and i will fix it asap
But that would require some actual searching for combat formulas and stuff.
Nice try tho.
How would the combat formulas impact this graph? Not trying to discredit your thought ... i like to get to a more accurate version.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
I am just translating (from French to English) what Jughurta said in page 1 of this thread. For the people who don't know, he is one of the best WH I have ever seen (astonishing reflexes and he works hard on the data). He's been playing WAR since live. So clearly his feedback matters.jughurta69 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:36 pm si quelqu'un peu traduire
Les spe burst sans element defensif sont encore plus penalisé , deja elle sont plus dure a jouer car demande une autre lecture que les spe tanky qui peuvent inc et prendre place au combat en faisant beaucoup moins attention a son positionnement etc..
la possibilité de diminuer par des passif est trop problematique et prejudiciable.
Pourquoi pas un buff de quelques secondes sur long CD , voir une moral 3 sur 8s ou 10s
WE/WH avec en moyenne 35% et un tactic degats crit pour accentué le burst en gros vous leur dites ben désolé pour vous . Vous etes deja fragile , en positionnel mais en plus vos crit ne feront plus rien ...
Burst-based specs without defensive items are even more penalized. Considering first they are harder to play because they require another reading (of the fights), whereas tanky specs can engage the battle with less attention to their positioning, etc...
The possibility to passively diminish output (damage) is too problematic and damaging.
Why not transform it to buff over a few seconds with a long cooldown? Or even a Moral 3 over 8s to 10s?
For the WE/WH with an average of 35% (note: I guess he meant critical chances here) and the +critical damage tactic to accentuate their burst damage, basically, you are telling them "sorry guys, you are fragile, you need positioning, furthermore your critical damages don't do damage anymore..."
My own opinion: I think it was not needed. Otherwise, you need something else to balance it either:
- An inner counterpart like -%crit damage, with - %healing/-%toughness/-% duration of buffs...
- offensive counterpart: i.e another RP to invest in which does increase +X crit damage
But good look to balance it because it favors the ones that are RR80 +, which have more options for investing renown points with better gears. So maybe it just has to be reverted.
Salute
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RoR: SW 82, AM Heal RR51
AoR: SW R87, BW/R60+, SM/40+, AM/R50+, WL/R60+, Slayer R40+, DoK/SH/Sorcerer R40+ (+others)
RoR: SW 82, AM Heal RR51
AoR: SW R87, BW/R60+, SM/40+, AM/R50+, WL/R60+, Slayer R40+, DoK/SH/Sorcerer R40+ (+others)
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
All the people here at complaining about trivial blows, do you think everyone will spec trivial blows? Come on, that will not be the case. The only thing you will prolly not see when you crit on a char that has full trivial blows is that you will not hit him anymore for more then 2K. So please all stop crying, you will still do more then enough damage.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
That, is a really good question.
BW/Sorc classmechanic is insane, no other way around it. but at the same time Mytic made it so our none crits are dealing some of the lowest nonecrit damage between the careers.
If the target of the TB patch was to lower the "chance" of critting, how on earth didnt you(devs) not just put a softcap on critchance or add diminishing returns
Because as this poster above me correctly points out, we are locked in this situation where we need to crit to do meaningful damage. Because of how our abilities are tuned to keep the classmechanic somewhat in check.
We can still only spec Mainstats + critchance offensively, but our targets now have 3 exelent defensive options to spec against us.
FS, Deftdefender, and now TB.
Yes TB is an expensive option, but it is still an option!
We are quite litterally stuck with the same offensive build, and now even more countering is added against us.
Are we getting an option to spec into "Resist penetration" next patch??
We have for a while been pushed out of most endgame pvp, Ranked is so melee dominated that even the ranked archtypes who have the chance to go a melee build will do so (mSH, aSW, engineer to some extend) Healers are going with shields when they can, and tanks are going for melee damage 2handers. Are we still believing this is not a complet melee meta?
And yes Rangeddamagedealers are an issue when there is a funnel situation, but that is a funnel issue and not really a rdps issue tbh.
So are we balacing around funnels now, or actually 2-2-2 pvp in city / ranked? Because this Trivialblows addition just screams that one of the active devs have been hanging out too long in voicecoms with a certain slayer who have a grudge out for Ranged archtypes.
Fine take our burst, but present us an alternative build path.
(12+ hours of playtime on the Patch in soloroaming, pug wbs, closedwarbands, scenarios, city sieges on BW)
Last edited by wonshot on Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bombling 92BW - Bombthebuilder 82Engi - Bombing 82SL - Bling 81Kobs - Orderling 80WP - Jackinabox 67WH
Gombling 85mSH- Chopling 83Chop - Notbombling 82Sorc - Powerhouse 81Zeal - Goldbag 80Mara - Smurfling 75Sham -Blobling 66BO
Gombling 85mSH- Chopling 83Chop - Notbombling 82Sorc - Powerhouse 81Zeal - Goldbag 80Mara - Smurfling 75Sham -Blobling 66BO
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Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Best fix: buff base dmg, nerf mechanic.wonshot wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:13 pmThat, is a really good question.
BW/Sorc classmechanic is insane, no other way around it. but at the same time Mytic made it so our none crits are dealing some of the lowest nonecrit damage between the careers.
If the target of the TB patch was to lower the "chance" of critting, how on earth didnt you(devs) not just put a softcap on critchance or add diminishing returns
Because as this poster above me correctly points out, we are locked in this situation where we need to crit to do meaningful damage. Because of how our abilities are tuned to keep the classmechanic somewhat in check.
We can still only spec Mainstats + critchance offensively, but our targets now have 3 exelent defensive options to spec against us.
FS, Deftdefender, and now TB.
Yes TB is an expensive option, but it is still an option!
We are quite litterally stuck with the same offensive build, and now even more countering is added against us.
Are we getting an option to spec into "Resist penetration" next patch??
We have for a while been pushed out of most endgame pvp, Ranked is so melee dominated that even the ranked archtypes who have the chance to go a melee build will do so (mSH, aSW, engineer to some extend) Healers are going with shields when they can, and tanks are going for melee damage 2handers. Are we still believing this is not a complet melee meta?
And yes Rangeddamagedealers are an issue when there is a funnel situation, but that is a funnel issue and not really a rdps issue tbh.
So are we balacing around funnels now, or actually 2-2-2 pvp in city / ranked? Because this Trivialblows addition just screams that one of the active devs have been hanging out too long in voicecoms with a certain slayer who have a grudge out for Ranged archtypes.
Fine take our burst, but present us an alternative build path.
Re: Trivial Blows Feedback
Sweet bring back bad ideas from the live game. Brings back memories of people wanting to be crited over regular hits because TB formula is crap and you end up taking less damage if they critically hit.
Oh yeah we tried it this weekend discord talk we’re all in agreement TB is the way to go healers like it on the slayers for sure which is good cause they suffer in the meta
Oh yeah we tried it this weekend discord talk we’re all in agreement TB is the way to go healers like it on the slayers for sure which is good cause they suffer in the meta
It's OK to heal a Slayer!
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