nonfactor wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:42 am
bad players use it as a scapegoat/boogeyman simirarily to xrealming
Most (??) channeled abilities put a buff on the player that uses it... tried it with Winds of Insanity/Bring it On!/GtdC/HtL. NB can check for buffs on users, usually used to check for immunities right? Now set it up so that it taunts if the buff is up. Raze doesnt give you a buff so I'm not sure how you would set it up for that.
Spoiler:
Not sure if you are reading all the topics about NB. I will type it again and make it more specific. There is a big difference between "can use" and "will use". No one reasonable was/is using NB for immunity checks. There is no way u can use CC's, break free, taunt and interrupt, even snare abs in sequence u r spaming. There is no point to do it, no goal, there is no common sense in it. Unless u wonna lower your performance to below decent level. Again, u can do this kind of checks, but there is no point. U need to use this abs in specific and proper moment that cant be predicted and built into a sequence. For those ppl who does not understand the way NB works/was used for and willing to listen i will tell. NB was used as a sequencer to lower the amount of buttons u need to press(and may be compensate bad designed mechanics, lags and delays, and things that r related to positional attacks), on top of that u could use several conditional checks. The most common and usefull conditional check was "Stack", and no one here was mentioning it in discussion. It was helping u to refresh your buffs and debuffs with making small rotations on one button. Another one is "Ability Channeled" was preventing from breaking your channel while it is inside the sequence(means not that frequently used). "Effect" - not sure(dont remember) if i could find any good use for it(BG crit tactic may be, but u can avoid using it actually, especially if it is buging from time to time when u r using it with a tactic effect check). "Carier mechanic"(not sure if it is written properly) - usefull for IB and BG(related to buffs and debuffs sequences), also u could use it for SM and BO to avoid useing PanB addon, may be WH/WE. "HP%" - May be for SH and SW for one ability(not reliable imo). "Archetype" - usefull for tanks to put aggro generating ab with npc check into sequence(u can try to use it for some specific debuffs like outgoing heal debuff/parry- block debuff, but again, its unreliable when inside sequence). "Has tactic" - reducing amount of buttons on few classes if switching builds often(means not that frequently used). "Virtual cooldown" - it's hard to find a use(SH/SW may be). "AP/HP" - there is no point to use pots in a sequence u r spaming, so no use. "Condition" - CC immunity and buff/debuff type checks, immunity checks were not used(read above why), as for buff/debuff checks, i dont remember if i could find any good use for it. There are some more, but i rly dont remeber now...
The most important part of NB is making sequences. And there is an issue with it(?). There are few(5?) abs that r being used from behind only, u can put it into a sequence and it will fire whenever its possible. And there is no conditional checks needed. Same story with Gut Ripper ab. Not sure if this 6 abs (2 spamable/4 with 10 sec cd) can make some significant impact on increasing the performance(imo u barely can use hit from behind abs in proper fights unless opponents being hard CC'd or u r chasing someone that exposing his back).
All this comes from experience of using NB from the very begining (even without gUI). And ofc from experince of playing AoR from begining till the end and RoR from begining(when EU prime time population was around 50 ppl) till now, and participating in every aspect of the game like pve, solo roaming, solo(rng) ranked, leading organized wb, being a part organized 6 man. But it does not mean i am not accepting that i can be wrong.
And im not trying to twist the words, spread fake/unproved information etc. Just saying something that can be checked whenever u want.
I'm not saying I'm against blocking NB by writing this wall of text, but that doesn't mean I'm in favor.
As far as it was a part of a game for eternity, blocking it should be debated at least(most likely inside the developers team). Imo ofc.
And the thing i personally dont like most is that NB blocking was not announced beforehand so majority of ppl could prepare for it and rebuild the UI's etc.
Put your spam ability with your punt in a 2-ability sequence. Let the punt check immunity. Now you dont waste your punt if the target is still immune to it. "But buffhead shows immunities"... sure, but how often do you see ppl try to CC you while you are still immune? Thats not even a "can use" vs. "will use" scenario... thats just a very easy "fix" to player error. Same with the taunt... put it before your normal sequence and use it on certain abilities you 100% want to interrupt like morals and WoI... no need to interrupt ALL channels, because you can ignore most of them.
And even the most common checks you listed are just automating and taking care of player errors. "Stack" being used to avoid reapplying dots and debuffs. No need to check buffhead and make a decision, just spam your debuff/dot sequence.
Most (??) channeled abilities put a buff on the player that uses it... tried it with Winds of Insanity/Bring it On!/GtdC/HtL. NB can check for buffs on users, usually used to check for immunities right? Now set it up so that it taunts if the buff is up. Raze doesnt give you a buff so I'm not sure how you would set it up for that.
Spoiler:
Not sure if you are reading all the topics about NB. I will type it again and make it more specific. There is a big difference between "can use" and "will use". No one reasonable was/is using NB for immunity checks. There is no way u can use CC's, break free, taunt and interrupt, even snare abs in sequence u r spaming. There is no point to do it, no goal, there is no common sense in it. Unless u wonna lower your performance to below decent level. Again, u can do this kind of checks, but there is no point. U need to use this abs in specific and proper moment that cant be predicted and built into a sequence. For those ppl who does not understand the way NB works/was used for and willing to listen i will tell. NB was used as a sequencer to lower the amount of buttons u need to press(and may be compensate bad designed mechanics, lags and delays, and things that r related to positional attacks), on top of that u could use several conditional checks. The most common and usefull conditional check was "Stack", and no one here was mentioning it in discussion. It was helping u to refresh your buffs and debuffs with making small rotations on one button. Another one is "Ability Channeled" was preventing from breaking your channel while it is inside the sequence(means not that frequently used). "Effect" - not sure(dont remember) if i could find any good use for it(BG crit tactic may be, but u can avoid using it actually, especially if it is buging from time to time when u r using it with a tactic effect check). "Carier mechanic"(not sure if it is written properly) - usefull for IB and BG(related to buffs and debuffs sequences), also u could use it for SM and BO to avoid useing PanB addon, may be WH/WE. "HP%" - May be for SH and SW for one ability(not reliable imo). "Archetype" - usefull for tanks to put aggro generating ab with npc check into sequence(u can try to use it for some specific debuffs like outgoing heal debuff/parry- block debuff, but again, its unreliable when inside sequence). "Has tactic" - reducing amount of buttons on few classes if switching builds often(means not that frequently used). "Virtual cooldown" - it's hard to find a use(SH/SW may be). "AP/HP" - there is no point to use pots in a sequence u r spaming, so no use. "Condition" - CC immunity and buff/debuff type checks, immunity checks were not used(read above why), as for buff/debuff checks, i dont remember if i could find any good use for it. There are some more, but i rly dont remeber now...
The most important part of NB is making sequences. And there is an issue with it(?). There are few(5?) abs that r being used from behind only, u can put it into a sequence and it will fire whenever its possible. And there is no conditional checks needed. Same story with Gut Ripper ab. Not sure if this 6 abs (2 spamable/4 with 10 sec cd) can make some significant impact on increasing the performance(imo u barely can use hit from behind abs in proper fights unless opponents being hard CC'd or u r chasing someone that exposing his back).
All this comes from experience of using NB from the very begining (even without gUI). And ofc from experince of playing AoR from begining till the end and RoR from begining(when EU prime time population was around 50 ppl) till now, and participating in every aspect of the game like pve, solo roaming, solo(rng) ranked, leading organized wb, being a part organized 6 man. But it does not mean i am not accepting that i can be wrong.
And im not trying to twist the words, spread fake/unproved information etc. Just saying something that can be checked whenever u want.
I'm not saying I'm against blocking NB by writing this wall of text, but that doesn't mean I'm in favor.
As far as it was a part of a game for eternity, blocking it should be debated at least(most likely inside the developers team). Imo ofc.
And the thing i personally dont like most is that NB blocking was not announced beforehand so majority of ppl could prepare for it and rebuild the UI's etc.
Put your spam ability with your punt in a 2-ability sequence. Let the punt check immunity. Now you dont waste your punt if the target is still immune to it. "But buffhead shows immunities"... sure, but how often do you see ppl try to CC you while you are still immune? Thats not even a "can use" vs. "will use" scenario... thats just a very easy "fix" to player error. Same with the taunt... put it before your normal sequence and use it on certain abilities you 100% want to interrupt like morals and WoI... no need to interrupt ALL channels, because you can ignore most of them.
And even the most common checks you listed are just automating and taking care of player errors. "Stack" being used to avoid reapplying dots and debuffs. No need to check buffhead and make a decision, just spam your debuff/dot sequence.
Ok, nice, you know how sequence work. Lets discuss this 2 abs u mentioned.
Ofc there are such ppl who r spaming punt with no purpose, with no preparation and coordination with a team. Usefulness of this kind of moves is debatable at least. Outside of such situations(mostly common for pug environment) there is no point to use this sequence. This is about situation u described. "But buffhead show immunities" - yeap u can make a use of it, just put an item from backpack or an ab(if u want to have a chance to waste 2/3 of GCD time) like u discribed, if u want to avoid the +/- half a second buffhead delay mistake(the immunity is still there after fading for +/-half a sec).Im not sure if u rly need to use it being aware about this kind of stuff. But - "u can".
Lets talk about taunt. Tell me how often u(as a tank) r targeting someone who starts chaneling in rvr or sc? Its pure rng. Do u need to intrrupt same ability in every situation? Answer is no. I cant remember any morale that needs to be interrupted and puts some effect on a caster. So what abs u need to interrupt? GtdC, Retribution/Bring it on, all the HTL(3 on each side) + all the Cant hit me like abs(2 on destro and 1 on order), DoK/WP(dps and heal) channel - these r putting effect on a caster. Tanks channeling puts effect aswell btw(no way u will interrupt it with puting taunt into sequence or even at all). Also u need to interrupt res(dont remember if it puts effect on caster, mostlikely not). Im sure that puting 4-8 taunts with checks for each effect wont help u to perform better(it will be quite the opposite), coz it wont be matching every situation u r in(there is no 100% need of interrupting, it always depends on situation). On top of that u will still use it manually to interrupt something that dont put effect on caster. And another thing is that there is no 1 button spam on a tank(or any other archetype) anyway. So again, no point to use it. But as i typed before - "u can".
As for the last part of your post. Yes, i listed the majority of checks and discribed its usefulness. "Stack" is close to be the only one that is truly useful(as u can read from my post). I agree that conditional checks r taking care of player mistakes(like reapplying dots, buffs, debuffs at the wrong timing) and on top of that helping to focus more on positioning or something else. But as for automating and making decisions for the player i disagree. First thing is that there is no one button spam. Second - there are fixed rotations that r not changing and u will use this 3-4 abs in the same order no metter what. I assume and hope u r not talking about comlete automatisation and not making decisions like at all, coz it is far from reality. And ofc this addon gives u benefits (like every other addon, and im not comparing the amount of profit u get from using one or another), this what addons r made for. But again this is more QoL thing than automatisation and ability not to make decisions, imo.
Edited: It is nice to talk with ppl whos explaing there pov. Thank u for that.
inoeth wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:01 am
just ban everyone that uses NB, when the first ban wave hits, the use of NB will go down drastically
How do you know who is using NB? NB is client side stuff.
Northside-KOTBS ,Southside-SW Westsides-WP Eastside-WH,Rightside-WL
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--Book of Five Rings
inoeth wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:01 am
just ban everyone that uses NB, when the first ban wave hits, the use of NB will go down drastically
How do you know who is using NB? NB is client side stuff.
Very simple. Because, as we found out, everyone who does not use NB are professional players. It is enough for one of them to go to the rvr, whoever kills him, he uses the NB. Because without NB, he would not have been able to kill a professional player.
