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[FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

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pagimanRalla10
Posts: 7

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#61 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:20 pm

You turn the game into science. Macros here with gamer keyboard
Naga mouse there .... Buy expensive hardware to be able to play a 13 year old game to some extent.

Do you know what's the worst? There are already so many people who are experimenting with a cracked NB and you have provided the community with a bad addon for which you simply have no use because you should also use macros or Naga mouse so that you can use Squenzen to some extent.

The whole thing borders on ridiculous.

Just admit the mistake that this game with its bad programming and its extremely bad performance like lags or 1-2 FPS when WBs meet is the best for everyone involved if you allow NB again. For this reason, many have already emigrated and even more people will emigrate. In our ally about 50% of the players have disappeared since the last patch. New games like New World or Ashes of Creatino are in the starting blocks. If you want to give the people some fun back then take back the mistakes you made with NB and remove this pointless addon that you are offering

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Spellbound
Posts: 329
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Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#62 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:22 pm

Phantasm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:29 pm
Spoiler:
abazaba wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:15 pm
Kaelang wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:45 pm

The issue here lies with the Sequencer being stuck on the first skill - which sounds like a valid issue report. The Sequencer addon isn't meant to get stuck unless there's skills crammed into the sequence that require conditions, in which case the addon isn't built to verify conditions are met.
I was under the impression using automation was against the server rules, "Don't automate your gameplay by any means (macros, bots, gaming mice, etc.)", to the extent a gaming mouse or 3rd party program could do. Is there official word on using a 3rd party sequencer, or is it that there's no repercussions for using one?

The sequencer addon is welcomed of course, but is limited in comparison to outside sequencing.
I`m totally sure that ruling sentence was made to make it clear for situations when some players create afk bots with software like autohotkey to generate pressing buttons "for you" while you watching TV or playing with your kids/wife :) What misunderstood is a change addons or hardware like mouse or fancy keyboard do to which skills are pressed - twister addon, sequencer, NB etc. You still need to press buttons on your own. But the decision what are skills used on your skillbars via added conditionals, example - choice between Fervor and Torment must be made by you, not software/hardware.
Exactly.

Automation: Is not you building a sequence of abilities and have to press a button each time. Automation is a LOOP where you just make a macro, press a button to activate and it spams that loop hundreds of times until you press the button again to shut it off. That's automation
Conditional: Addon checks if the target has heal debuff, immunities, player already has Toughness buff from a melee attack so doesn't use it, won't use an ability (absorb) unless friendly player is below 50% health, set a limit to 3 stacks of Broadhead Arrows, etc. Basically Conditional is checking the player, friendly or enemies buffs/debuffs and then making the decision, which I didn't agree with on Nerfed Buttons.

What we're asking for in NOT a conditional in my opinion and few RoR staff I've chatted with agree backstyle/shatter are not conditional but advancing on sequence if it's grayed out, so staff have mixed opinions on conditionals and are in agreement how I see this. If Shatter, back style is grayed out in our sequence, it should skip it and go to the next ability which is no different than hitting buttons 1-5 really fast. If I have Spine Crusher on 4 and I'm in the front, it'll use ability 5 after I've gone through sequence 1-3. It's not doing any conditional checks on the player, friendly or enemy player buffs. It's simply just sequencing the abilities as you lined them up. Whether the ability is grayed out (unusable) due to a enemy having nothing to shatter or not on his rear to use a rear style, using any keyboard/mouse/AHK software will just spam buttons 1-5 anyway on each key press and bypass shatter/backstyle. it's simply how the client is made to ignore a grayed out ability. Sequencer should not get stuck on the grayed out ability and just bypass it.

That's my opinion on what would solidify this sequencer to be acceptable.
Last edited by Spellbound on Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ururu
Posts: 17

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#63 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:24 pm

This kinda stuff is why i was against blocking of NB. Some conditionals were quite harmless, some are questionable. NB block removed them all and people are making workarounds that aren't publicly available or convenient. Sequencer(plus aura\buffhead) as it is is good enough for me, but i'm sure that more competitive folk would go far beyond its functionality.

abazaba
Posts: 13

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#64 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:37 pm

Its the age old "i glue a popsicle stick to 12345".
1 key tries 5.

I think what its really describing is natural conditionals in abilities, which are a function of sequence, whether from position, shatter, CD, or grey.

At rest abilities have conditionals, as long as you can sequence them.

nonfactor
Posts: 160

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#65 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:39 pm

ururu wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:24 pm This kinda stuff is why i was against blocking of NB. Some conditionals were quite harmless, some are questionable. NB block removed them all and people are making workarounds that aren't publicly available or convenient. Sequencer(plus aura\buffhead) as it is is good enough for me, but i'm sure that more competitive folk would go far beyond its functionality.
Could not agree more. I appreciate the effort with the addon but the whole idea is flawed to begin with.

Nothing good came out of removal of NB, it opened a huge can of worms. Some people stopped playing and the community became very divided, people who are against NB became extremely toxic towards people who used the addon. The addon has been used for years, and while just because something has been present for a long time it does not mean that it has to be good, yet you somehow played with NB users and it was not the end of the world wasn't it? The stubbornness to bring it back is quite baffling, especially since wargrimnir, the man in charge of balance and probably the most influential dev, summed up pretty well why NB is not that much of an issue and the devs who are in favour of removing it still has not spoken up yet.

Duukar
Posts: 302

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#66 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:22 pm

Spellbound wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:22 pm
Phantasm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:29 pm
Spoiler:
abazaba wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:15 pm

I was under the impression using automation was against the server rules, "Don't automate your gameplay by any means (macros, bots, gaming mice, etc.)", to the extent a gaming mouse or 3rd party program could do. Is there official word on using a 3rd party sequencer, or is it that there's no repercussions for using one?

The sequencer addon is welcomed of course, but is limited in comparison to outside sequencing.
I`m totally sure that ruling sentence was made to make it clear for situations when some players create afk bots with software like autohotkey to generate pressing buttons "for you" while you watching TV or playing with your kids/wife :) What misunderstood is a change addons or hardware like mouse or fancy keyboard do to which skills are pressed - twister addon, sequencer, NB etc. You still need to press buttons on your own. But the decision what are skills used on your skillbars via added conditionals, example - choice between Fervor and Torment must be made by you, not software/hardware.
Exactly.

Automation: Is not you building a sequence of abilities and have to press a button each time. Automation is a LOOP where you just make a macro, press a button to activate and it spams that loop hundreds of times until you press the button again to shut it off. That's automation
Conditional: Addon checks if the target has heal debuff, immunities, player already has Toughness buff from a melee attack so doesn't use it, won't use an ability (absorb) unless friendly player is below 50% health, set a limit to 3 stacks of Broadhead Arrows, etc. Basically Conditional is checking the player, friendly or enemies buffs/debuffs and then making the decision, which I didn't agree with on Nerfed Buttons.

What we're asking for in NOT a conditional in my opinion and few RoR staff I've chatted with agree backstyle/shatter are not conditional but advancing on sequence if it's grayed out, so staff have mixed opinions on conditionals and are in agreement how I see this. If Shatter, back style is grayed out in our sequence, it should skip it and go to the next ability which is no different than hitting buttons 1-5 really fast. If I have Spine Crusher on 4 and I'm in the front, it'll use ability 5 after I've gone through sequence 1-3. It's not doing any conditional checks on the player, friendly or enemy player buffs. It's simply just sequencing the abilities as you lined them up. Whether the ability is grayed out (unusable) due to a enemy having nothing to shatter or not on his rear to use a rear style, using any keyboard/mouse/AHK software will just spam buttons 1-5 anyway on each key press and bypass shatter/backstyle. it's simply how the client is made to ignore a grayed out ability. Sequencer should not get stuck on the grayed out ability and just bypass it.

That's my opinion on what would solidify this sequencer to be acceptable.
Agree with this 100%.. This would make this a useable addon.. As a by product those with disabilities would be able to perform to a much higher standard..

Mordd
Posts: 260

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#67 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:31 pm

This whole situation is just dumb. Drive off a large portion of the population over removing an add on that was in game since right after launch. Then waste time making a server side sequencer that is so limited a standard autohotkey macro is a far better option.

This sequencer as it is, is completely useless. Its a wastes of time to try and setup to use and a waste of time to program and put all of these stupid restrictions on.

Then you also have many people saying there is a secret working version of NB. I have no idea if its true. So many people in the game are mad and feel they are at a disadvantage now caused by Daylen. If everyone has access to an add on and people choose to not use it, thats up to them. But if only some players have access to it, there is an imbalance now. This may only be perceived and the add on may not actually work, but we will lose more players to people thinking some have it and they cant get it.

emiliorv
Suspended
Posts: 1295

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#68 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:32 pm

Phantasm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:37 pm
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
emiliorv wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:08 am
Phantasm wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:19 am Obvious next step to improve that addon is to make sequence to skip skills which cant be actively pressed anyway without met conditions built-in to a skill
Thats a conditional check
Skip abilities in Cooldown are conditional checks

In both cases addon will make the decision instead player => a player can keep pressing the button of an ability that is in CD or cant be used in that moment => addons cant make the decision to skip that.
You clearly have no idea what both addons do/did and you dont want to see difference or you just troll. Open game, slot in skill bar any ability you got which hes got "INTERNAL CONDITION BUILT-IN THE ABILITY". Simple example:

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Do you see Demolition? Can you press it? ofc u can press it, but no chance it will fire. It cant FIRE. You got no stance required to be FIRED. Your personal decision is to keep smashing that button or not? You see now? Ofc different abilities got different requirements to be fired - AP cost, mechanic cost, etc etc. Sequencer doesnt see those costs and "think" every ability is totally equal and can be used any given time. Cooldown is just another example that Sequencer "doesnt see it being unavailable to use" and skill force you to use it in said sequence. Hence the string is broken. Thats kind of feedback we give, no whine that its not working like NB did where you could ADD OWN conditional to any ability and NB was respecting it when skill was in a current place in sequence/string. Noone asks for it, thats the reason NB was disabled.

Is it clear now?
I know perfectly what both addons are doing...lets suposse im a terrible bad player and spend 2-3 secs smashing the hotkey of an ability on CD until i notice thats on CD...now lets sopose that im the same terrible bad player but using an addon who skip abilities on CD on a secuence...suddenly im playing better because an addon is doing the work for myself.

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emiliorv
Suspended
Posts: 1295

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#69 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:37 pm

Sulorie wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:14 pm
emiliorv wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:02 pm stop smashing 1 button expecting that one addon will select the correct action...
This is not what a sequencer is doing.
You have a pre-selected set of skills in a chain and you toggle them one after another. There is no check to judge whether the skill is appropriate for the situation.
Having a CD check is mandatory for a sequence or it never progresses. It doesn't "think" for the player, as the player thought beforehand, while creating the skill chain and it can't deviate from it at all.
The addon use ability X if it isnt on CD and using ability Y when X is on CD => so yes, addon is doing the work for the player.


Dont be lazy => make 1 secuence to use when X is not on CD and a second secuence to use when X is on CD...

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Phantasm
Posts: 675

Re: [FEEDBACK] Sequencer Addon.

Post#70 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:45 pm

Thats the whole purpose of addons dont u think? They dont just look fancy, they make bad players a bit better, i`m bad player and I use addons.

I use buffhead to track immunities, I use Aura to know when my key abilities are off CD, I use sequencer to group up similar CD abilities to save space on skill bars so I can use more meaningful skills than ALL of them.

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